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Sea Ice


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#1
weatherbowl

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We here a lot about the Arctic Sea Ice and how it's shrinking but we don't here much about the following:

The agency that tracks polar ice reported Tuesday that winter coverage of sea ice in Antarctica has set a 33-year high. The ice hit its maximum extent on Sept. 26, at the peak of Antarctic winter, when it covered 7.5 million square miles of the Southern Ocean. That’s a half-percent increase over the previous record, set in 2006.
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#2
NittanyLion

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View Postweatherbowl, on 02 December 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

We here a lot about the Arctic Sea Ice and how it's shrinking but we don't here much about the following:

The agency that tracks polar ice reported Tuesday that winter coverage of sea ice in Antarctica has set a 33-year high. The ice hit its maximum extent on Sept. 26, at the peak of Antarctic winter, when it covered 7.5 million square miles of the Southern Ocean. That’s a half-percent increase over the previous record, set in 2006.

That's contrary to this report:

http://www.nasa.gov/...ce20121129.html
Mike
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#3
NittanyLion

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View PostNittanyLion, on 02 December 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

That's contrary to this report:

http://www.nasa.gov/...ce20121129.html

Upon some further reading, the difference appears to be land ice vs. sea ice. Antarctica is losing Land Ice rapidly while the sea ice fluctuates throughout the year. However when combining the Sea Ice and Land Ice, Antarctica is seeing a net loss in total ice, just like the Arctic.
Mike
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Colchester, VT
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The views expressed in this post are solely mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of the National Weather Service.

#4
weatherbowl

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View PostNittanyLion, on 02 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Upon some further reading, the difference appears to be land ice vs. sea ice. Antarctica is losing Land Ice rapidly while the sea ice fluctuates throughout the year. However when combining the Sea Ice and Land Ice, Antarctica is seeing a net loss in total ice, just like the Arctic.

After I did some further reading I did find where the Antarctic is losing land ice, but over all, the Antarctic is losing ice at a much slower rate than the Arctic. As far as I know the land area of the Antarctic is closer to the south pole than the surrounding ocean. If that is the case why is sea ice staying the same or rising, yet areas closer to the south pole, which should be colder, are losing ice. Does this make sense or am I wrong about what I am saying?
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#5
weatherbowl

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http://stevengoddard...s-40-years-ago/

I know the Arctic sea ice has been shrinking since 1978 but is this an example of how charts can be presented in a misleading way?
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#6
weatherbowl

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Antarctic sea ice hit a record high in May since satellite records have been used. Meanwhile the Arctic was below the 1981 - 2010 average.
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#7
weatherbowl

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Antarctic ice continues to grow at record amounts while the Arctic continues to loose ice. I also read temperatures in the Antarctic have been falling for the past 40 years. It would almost seem like the earth could have had an ever so slight tilt, but I'm sure if that happened it would have been known by the scientific world.
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#8
NittanyLion

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View Postweatherbowl, on 11 August 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Antarctic ice continues to grow at record amounts while the Arctic continues to loose ice. I also read temperatures in the Antarctic have been falling for the past 40 years. It would almost seem like the earth could have had an ever so slight tilt, but I'm sure if that happened it would have been known by the scientific world.

It does do so on a cyclical basis, called Milankovitch cycles:

http://ossfoundation...nkovitch-cycles

This likely has played a role in the change in the climate that has been observed. However we have outpaced the natural variation that is expected.

We are currently in a phase that would favor what you have pointed out.
Mike
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Snowfall 2014-2015: 83.4"

Colchester, VT
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The views expressed in this post are solely mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of the National Weather Service.

#9
weatherbowl

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Interesting, makes me wonder how much of our current climate change could be caused by something like this.
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#10
NittanyLion

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View Postweatherbowl, on 11 August 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

Interesting, makes me wonder how much of our current climate change could be caused by something like this.

From what I know about it, I think it's played a pretty large role. I'm more in the human-enhanced global warming camp. I do think the 1900-2000 time period was a natural warming cycle when you take into account Milankovitch Cycles, Solar Cycles, and Sunspots. I do believe though that we have outpaced what the natural cycle would allow, because of the added contributions by humans. From say about 2000 onward, we should be naturally cooling, we are heading into a Milankovitch minumum, a sunspot minimum, and solar minimum (In fact in 500 years we should naturally be in another Little Ice Age). So if we don't start cooling, I think that validates all anthropogenic theories. Recently, we've been below the predicted pace of the IPCC on warming. Now is this simply a pause in the warming, and it will continue? Or is it the beginning of the cool down? I tend to think the Earth is naturally trying to cool now in this new phase, but the warming enhanced by humans is muting that cooling and therefore holding neutral or still warming. The next 10 years will be very telling.


Posted Image

Pauses do happen. Every year is not going to be warmer than the previous year due to intra-decadal phases, so its really the overall trend that counts.
Mike
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South Burlington, VT
Elevation: 332 ft
Snowfall 2014-2015: 83.4"

Colchester, VT
Elevation: 311 ft

The views expressed in this post are solely mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of the National Weather Service.

#11
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Very very interesting Mike. Thanks a lot for all that info.
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#12
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I missed this topic but what that article is telling me is that what we call normal temps everywhere on earth is just normal for a few hundred year cycle. Each cycle can have a slightly different effect because of a slightly different wobble by Earth or by a planet, especially a massive planet like Jupiter, effecting Earth or by the sun itself which would effect everything in the solar system. So how do you measure the difference man has made if there can also be a natural variation from one cycle to another. We don't have climate records long enough and the cycles would have a natural variation anyway. I've always maintained that what man does is akin to turning on a small light in a room that is sun drenched with natural sun light. In other words the room would look the same with or without the light on. The effect is very minor, possibly not even measurable vs the natural variation. One has to also wonder if the earth itself thru processes like plate tectonics plays a role. At one time we had one massive continent vs the broken land zones we have now. Would the earth have been warmer if that continent was in an area where the the sun warmed that hemisphere. You've got so many variables here. Two things we do know is that man's effect will be in the direction of warmth and that the sun is growing brighter and warmer. So it's natural now that the earth should be warmer than past cycles but IMO a very high percentage of the added warmth is from natural causes. It's too bad we cant measure temps on say Mars or Venus as a comparative. If temps on measurable planets varied in the same way as Earth we'd know its all natural and if the earth warmed by a slightly higher amount we'd know it was man, unless of course some underlying cause from the earths crust itself was at play.
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#13
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Despite our frigid February, Arctic sea ice was recorded at lowest ever winter extent:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
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