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Malaysia air flight 370


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#41
icehater

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NY Times story gives another reason why the passengers may have been knocked unconscious. Also indicates the plane was flying erratically. The more I read about this the more I think we have a CO2 issue on this flight and the plane then ran out of fuel.

http://www.nytimes.c...ar.html?hp&_r=0
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#42
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View Posticehater, on 14 March 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

NY Times story gives another reason why the passengers may have been knocked unconscious. Also indicates the plane was flying erratically. The more I read about this the more I think we have a CO2 issue on this flight and the plane then ran out of fuel.

http://www.nytimes.c...ar.html?hp&_r=0

That scenario would not explain why or how both transponders were turned off. The fact that they were, suggests that it was a deliberate act to mask the location of the plane. The transponders are in two separate locations -- one inside the cockpit and the other outside the cockpit. This information, more than any other known data, suggests that the plane was sabotaged.
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#43
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View Postsnowshoe, on 14 March 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

The one transponder that sends a signal every hour can not be shut off. If that was the case and the plane did not crash then they should be able to pick it up.

Both transponders can be easily disabled through a floor hatch outside the cockpit and near the first class cabin which provides access to the computer racks. This is knowledge that the FAA, airline pilots, and maintenance engineers have.
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#44
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View Postrobbbs, on 14 March 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:



That scenario would not explain why both transponders were turned off. The fact that they were, suggests that it was a deliberate act to mask the location of the plane. The transponders are in two separate locations -- one inside the cockpit and the other outside the cockpit. This information, more than any other known data, suggests that the plane was sabotaged.

If this plane has not crashed you've got to wonder if it is on the ground somewhere in Indonesia. I didn't think in this technology age a plane could disappear like this.
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#45
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View Posticehater, on 14 March 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:



If this plane has not crashed you've got to wonder if it is on the ground somewhere in Indonesia. I didn't think in this technology age a plane could disappear like this.

But if it is, where are all the passengers? This was an overnight flight so maybe the passengers were asleep while the pilots diverted the plane. I'm tired of all the speculation, I want answers. I cannot imagine what the families of the passengers are going through right now with all these theories floating around.

Say the plane did crash in an area in the Indian Ocean, wouldn't you think after a week, most if not everything would have sunk to the bottom of the ocean at this point? That may be the determination by officials if nothing turns up.
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#46
icehater

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Have been on overnight flights to Europe 4x a year for 15 years and who knows how many red eyes. There's always someone awake plus you have the cabin crew roaming around. The people on the plane had to be knocked unconscious in some way or they were held at bay by a threat that would have brought the plane down.
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#47
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Just in from Associated Press. As soon as I learned yesterday that the transponders were turned off, I knew that this was sabotage.


KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) 12:15 AM / March 15 — Investigators have concluded that one or more people with significant flying experience hijacked the missing Malaysia Airlines jet, switched off communication devices and steered it off-course, a Malaysian government official involved in the investigation said Saturday.

No motive has been established and no demands have been made known, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media. The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory.

"It is conclusive," he said.
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#48
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Couple the AP story with Obama getting constant updates and a US destroyer enroute to the IndianOcean. And you know that our government knows a lot and is starting to take action. But this is also a China situation as most of the passengers were Chinese nationals. Amazing developments today.
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#49
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Hate to speculate because, as a former pilot, you want to deal with known facts and there are only very few here. The transponders being turned off was the single most important clue that this was a deliberate act. Hence, sabotage.

The other clue, if correct, are reports that radar estimated that the plane climbed to an altitude of 45,000 feet, then descended to 20,000 feet (ceiling limits for commercial aircraft are 40,000 feet and the 777 has a max flight ceiling of 43,000 feet). As tragic and evil as it sounds, it's possible that the person(s) flying the plane intentionally ascended to 45,000 feet for the single purpose of killing the passengers. At that altitude, even with oxygen masks being deployed, one would have less than 3 seconds to put the mask on before being incapacitated. Meanwhile, the pilots would have already had their masks safely on before ascending.

Horrible thought and speculation but one which would explain two things -- 1) the climb to such a dangerous altitude, and 2) how to incapacitate all passengers before anyone even knew what was happening. If any of this is true, the motivation behind all this and where it leads is even more frightening.
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#50
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View Postrobbbs, on 14 March 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Both transponders can be easily disabled through a floor hatch outside the cockpit and near the first class cabin which provides access to the computer racks. This is knowledge that the FAA, airline pilots, and maintenance engineers have.


I guess the thing I was thinking is not a transponder. Its called the ACARS. They said the ACARS cant be turned off. This can be pinged every hour. From CNN: they have several "pings" from the airliner's service data system, known as ACARS, transmitted to satellites in the four to five hours after the last transponder signal, suggesting the plane flew to the Indian Ocean
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#51
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My Mom used that old-time expression, "Truth is stranger than fiction." Indeed, hard to make this stuff up.

The consensus is now that this was purposeful, and well-planned.

Robbbs - chilling, but plausible, to kill the passengers with altitude.
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#52
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View Postsnowshoe, on 15 March 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

I guess the thing I was thinking is not a transponder. Its called the ACARS. They said the ACARS cant be turned off. This can be pinged every hour. From CNN: they have several "pings" from the airliner's service data system, known as ACARS, transmitted to satellites in the four to five hours after the last transponder signal, suggesting the plane flew to the Indian Ocean

Snowshoe --- Ahh yes, aircraft communications addressing and reporting system (ACARS). It's primarily used to send out data and performance of engines and key systems. This way, if there's a problem, it can be picked up remotely and communicated back to the plane. It can actually be programmed to transmit a variety of things but is typically used for maintenance and systems monitoring on commercial flights. You are correct that it cannot be shut off, unless there's a circuit breaker or computer system in the lower galley which controls this (not sure). That will vary by aircraft and one would need a very high degree of technical knowledge (pilots don't even know such details). I believe it sends out signals only sporadically so it could be difficult to use for fixing locations. However, I'm not very familiar with this system and its use may vary.
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#53
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View Postrobbbs, on 15 March 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

Snowshoe --- Ahh yes, aircraft communications addressing and reporting system (ACARS). It's primarily used to send out data and performance of engines and key systems. This way, if there's a problem, it can be picked up remotely and communicated back to the plane. It can actually be programmed to transmit a variety of things but is typically used for maintenance and systems monitoring on commercial flights. You are correct that it cannot be shut off, unless there's a circuit breaker or computer system in the lower galley which controls this (not sure). That will vary by aircraft and one would need a very high degree of technical knowledge (pilots don't even know such details). I believe it sends out signals only sporadically so it could be difficult to use for fixing locations. However, I'm not very familiar with this system and its use may vary.

From what I heard it sends out signals once an hour. Malaysia airlines do not subscribe to use this technology but the signal can still be picked up at the satellite as in this case. It can't tell plane location, however. The Malaysian powers that be really have not done a good job with this investigation, if this was handled like this in the states, the outcry would be deafening.
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#54
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Scariest thought is that this plane is intact in terrorist hands and can be redeployed as a missile with a dirty bomb. In such a situation terrorists would go on radio silence so we'd hear nothing about anyone taking claim. I've even read reports now that some of the hourly pings that were picked up by satellite could have been transmitted from the ground. Is it possible that it landed and refueled. I don't think anyone that was maneuvering a plane like the altitude and direction changes we are seeing would have intended to crash the plane. So I think you have to assume worst case that it's in enemy hands and being prepped for a deadly mission. Earlier in the week we'd have thought worst case was a crash.

Now we are hearing it may have flown 7 hours after the last transmission and could be in Pakistan. Very scary.
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#55
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View Postweatherbowl, on 15 March 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:



From what I heard it sends out signals once an hour. Malaysia airlines do not subscribe to use this technology but the signal can still be picked up at the satellite as in this case. It can't tell plane location, however. The Malaysian powers that be really have not done a good job with this investigation, if this was handled like this in the states, the outcry would be deafening.

From my understanding those are the source of the pings. Malaysia doesn't pay for the service but that just means they don't get feedback. The satellite still collects the data.
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#56
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View PostFreezingDrizzle, on 15 March 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

My Mom used that old-time expression, "Truth is stranger than fiction." Indeed, hard to make this stuff up.

The consensus is now that this was purposeful, and well-planned.

Robbbs - chilling, but plausible, to kill the passengers with altitude.

Chilling - for sure but it would be even more chilling if they kept them alive to be used as hostages in a suicide mission with a dirty bomb. There's no end to evil in the world. The only thing that makes me think that's not the case is that we would have heard chatter. But this could also be just a tiny group of people that know about such a plot.
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#57
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U.S. officials previously said they believed the plane could have remained in the air for several extra hours, and Najib said Saturday that the flight was still communicating with satellites until 8:11 a.m. — 7 ½ hours after takeoff, and more than 90 minutes after it was due in Beijing. There was no further communication with the plane after that time, Najib said. If the plane was still in the air, it would have been nearing its fuel limit.
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#58
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Latest theory is that it may have been the pilots plot all along and it was a pre-programmed hard left turn. The reason no outcry from the passengers is speculated that the pilots announced a slight diversion and everything was okay.
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#59
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CNN reports that a US official says the US intelligence community believes that either the pilot, or co-pilot, or both, were directly involved in the divergence of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane.
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#60
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View Postrobbbs, on 15 March 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

CNN reports that a US official says the US intelligence community believes that either the pilot, or co-pilot, or both, were directly involved in the divergence of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane.

Must be watching the same news report haha.
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