Jump to content

Student Debt


68 replies to this topic

#61
gpsnavigator

  • Members
  • 1,740 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morris County, NJ
I'm putting this here for thundersleet to address your point, so as not to hijack the other thread. Anyway, you said:

There are some things I agree with more than others. College has turn into a country club, definitely. Higher ed is much cheaper in a lot of European countries but remember that they also give you much less.

With community college, fine, but what about after that? What about the other two years? If we claim to be about the "American Dream" and about doing well if you put in the work, I think a high-achieving, hard-working students should be given the necessary aid from the government to attend the college of their choice. If you are an A student but can't go to anything more than community college because of finances or student debt or whatever, we will need to seriously re-evaluate whether college is only a place for monied individuals. And we will seriously need to re-evaluate the American Dream too.

Ultimately, I'm probably right now not as set on free tuition for all as Sanders, but instead favor free tuition for people who both need it and deserve it based on academic performance. If you have a 3.3 GPA (B+ average) or higher and family income is below a certain level, you get financial assistance from the government based on how low that income is. And that's notwithstanding student debt, which is a whole other issue.


You raise a couple of fair points deserving of a response. First off, no, I don't think higher achieving lower income kids should be given a free ride to the college of their choice. Sometimes, you have to play the hand you've been dealt. I am a firm believer that if you have the right personality, and the right mindset, you can get a damn good start at community college, learn a lot, and expand your network of connections. And as I've already said, for the poorest kids, I'm fine with them getting tuition help for community colleges.

So, what comes next? Well, I'd like to see potential employers get on board. How about letting kids get a foot in the door on an associates degree and then if they do well, let the employer help out with the next level of education if it's deemed necessary for a desired career path. Encourage employers, hospitals, small business, corporations, non-profits, schools, etc, to give young people opportunities where appropriate, even if they haven't yet achieved a bachelors.

And while were at, why don't we look for ways to cut down on the amount of time (and money) required to get through college?

As I've already stated, I believe our education system, from K through college leaves much be desired and is not serving many of you all that well. There are a myriad of reasons as to why I feel that way which I won't get into here. Sufficed to say, I think you have to live within your means and make the most of what you have. Not everybody gets to sit in the comfy chair in the corner office, and that includes this public school teacher. Too many of us are judging each other on how far they got through the elite land of academia and none of it is helping address the income inequality issues or debt, which I think we can all agree, are huge problems.
-GPSNav
Home: Rockaway, NJ - Morris County -- Elevation 745 feet
Work: Newton, NJ - Sussex County -- Elevation 570 feet
Interests: weather, hiking, kayaking, math, science, current events, classic cars, and craft beer

#62
thundersleet

  • Members
  • 7,575 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Queens, NY

View Postgpsnavigator, on 12 April 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

I'm putting this here for thundersleet to address your point, so as not to hijack the other thread. Anyway, you said:

There are some things I agree with more than others. College has turn into a country club, definitely. Higher ed is much cheaper in a lot of European countries but remember that they also give you much less.

With community college, fine, but what about after that? What about the other two years? If we claim to be about the "American Dream" and about doing well if you put in the work, I think a high-achieving, hard-working students should be given the necessary aid from the government to attend the college of their choice. If you are an A student but can't go to anything more than community college because of finances or student debt or whatever, we will need to seriously re-evaluate whether college is only a place for monied individuals. And we will seriously need to re-evaluate the American Dream too.

Ultimately, I'm probably right now not as set on free tuition for all as Sanders, but instead favor free tuition for people who both need it and deserve it based on academic performance. If you have a 3.3 GPA (B+ average) or higher and family income is below a certain level, you get financial assistance from the government based on how low that income is. And that's notwithstanding student debt, which is a whole other issue.


You raise a couple of fair points deserving of a response. First off, no, I don't think higher achieving lower income kids should be given a free ride to the college of their choice. Sometimes, you have to play the hand you've been dealt. I am a firm believer that if you have the right personality, and the right mindset, you can get a damn good start at community college, learn a lot, and expand your network of connections. And as I've already said, for the poorest kids, I'm fine with them getting tuition help for community colleges.

So, what comes next? Well, I'd like to see potential employers get on board. How about letting kids get a foot in the door on an associates degree and then if they do well, let the employer help out with the next level of education if it's deemed necessary for a desired career path. Encourage employers, hospitals, small business, corporations, non-profits, schools, etc, to give young people opportunities where appropriate, even if they haven't yet achieved a bachelors.

And while were at, why don't we look for ways to cut down on the amount of time (and money) required to get through college?

As I've already stated, I believe our education system, from K through college leaves much be desired and is not serving many of you all that well. There are a myriad of reasons as to why I feel that way which I won't get into here. Sufficed to say, I think you have to live within your means and make the most of what you have. Not everybody gets to sit in the comfy chair in the corner office, and that includes this public school teacher. Too many of us are judging each other on how far they got through the elite land of academia and none of it is helping address the income inequality issues or debt, which I think we can all agree, are huge problems.

View Postgpsnavigator, on 12 April 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

I'm putting this here for thundersleet to address your point, so as not to hijack the other thread. Anyway, you said:

There are some things I agree with more than others. College has turn into a country club, definitely. Higher ed is much cheaper in a lot of European countries but remember that they also give you much less.

With community college, fine, but what about after that? What about the other two years? If we claim to be about the "American Dream" and about doing well if you put in the work, I think a high-achieving, hard-working students should be given the necessary aid from the government to attend the college of their choice. If you are an A student but can't go to anything more than community college because of finances or student debt or whatever, we will need to seriously re-evaluate whether college is only a place for monied individuals. And we will seriously need to re-evaluate the American Dream too.

Ultimately, I'm probably right now not as set on free tuition for all as Sanders, but instead favor free tuition for people who both need it and deserve it based on academic performance. If you have a 3.3 GPA (B+ average) or higher and family income is below a certain level, you get financial assistance from the government based on how low that income is. And that's notwithstanding student debt, which is a whole other issue.


You raise a couple of fair points deserving of a response. First off, no, I don't think higher achieving lower income kids should be given a free ride to the college of their choice. Sometimes, you have to play the hand you've been dealt. I am a firm believer that if you have the right personality, and the right mindset, you can get a damn good start at community college, learn a lot, and expand your network of connections. And as I've already said, for the poorest kids, I'm fine with them getting tuition help for community colleges.

So, what comes next? Well, I'd like to see potential employers get on board. How about letting kids get a foot in the door on an associates degree and then if they do well, let the employer help out with the next level of education if it's deemed necessary for a desired career path. Encourage employers, hospitals, small business, corporations, non-profits, schools, etc, to give young people opportunities where appropriate, even if they haven't yet achieved a bachelors.

And while were at, why don't we look for ways to cut down on the amount of time (and money) required to get through college?

As I've already stated, I believe our education system, from K through college leaves much be desired and is not serving many of you all that well. There are a myriad of reasons as to why I feel that way which I won't get into here. Sufficed to say, I think you have to live within your means and make the most of what you have. Not everybody gets to sit in the comfy chair in the corner office, and that includes this public school teacher. Too many of us are judging each other on how far they got through the elite land of academia and none of it is helping address the income inequality issues or debt, which I think we can all agree, are huge problems.

Wow...I haven't been on here in for freaking ever so I apologize for not responding at all. But I think all of what you said deserves a response, even though my absence as of late might indicate otherwise.

If you could get employers on board, that would be awesome. But realistically, do I see employers getting on board? I don't think that's realistic. A lot of small business and non-profits don't have that sort of money. I don't see large corporations as the savior either. I think this is a case where government is needed because no other entity can provide that sort of service.

The first paragraph is the one I fundamentally disagree with the most. There are some students at Dickinson (and high-achieving ones, at that) who come from community colleges. But you need to be at the right sort of community college with the right sort of connections, because not all community colleges offer connections to a school even as good as Dickinson (which is a very good school, but not a Harvard of Yale either). What if there are no community colleges in your area that have that sort of connection to top-tier schools? That's a problem, and that's why I think we need to go further than just community college. I think that, if we truly want to maintain some semblance of an American Dream, we need to give high-achieving, low-income students a pathway to the college of his/her choice.

But you won't get an argument from me on the last paragraph.
Carlisle, PA is about 20 miles west-southwest of Harrisburg

J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets!
Let's go Mets!

#63
gpsnavigator

  • Members
  • 1,740 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morris County, NJ

View Postthundersleet, on 27 April 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Wow...I haven't been on here in for freaking ever so I apologize for not responding at all. But I think all of what you said deserves a response, even though my absence as of late might indicate otherwise.

If you could get employers on board, that would be awesome. But realistically, do I see employers getting on board? I don't think that's realistic. A lot of small business and non-profits don't have that sort of money. I don't see large corporations as the savior either. I think this is a case where government is needed because no other entity can provide that sort of service.

The first paragraph is the one I fundamentally disagree with the most. There are some students at Dickinson (and high-achieving ones, at that) who come from community colleges. But you need to be at the right sort of community college with the right sort of connections, because not all community colleges offer connections to a school even as good as Dickinson (which is a very good school, but not a Harvard of Yale either). What if there are no community colleges in your area that have that sort of connection to top-tier schools? That's a problem, and that's why I think we need to go further than just community college. I think that, if we truly want to maintain some semblance of an American Dream, we need to give high-achieving, low-income students a pathway to the college of his/her choice.

But you won't get an argument from me on the last paragraph.
No problem. I do disappearing acts too and am not here every day or even necessary every week.
Anyway, the issue here for me is probably as much a moral one as it is a fiscal one. I just don't think it's fair to place the burden of yours or anyone's college education on my parents, or any more elderly folks who are living on fixed incomes, or any of America's blue collar workers out there driving trucks and digging ditches. I just think it's morally irresponsible (not to mention fiscally questionable) to expect this of people who have no connection to what you are doing.

I'll take it a step further and flip the argument around. Under Sander's plan, not only poorer kids, but also Bill Gates kids will be able to choose a fancy state school (i.e. Penn State, UCLA, etc) and enjoy the fruits of taxpayer funded tuition.

In my humble view, other priorities take precedent than free college for all. You want more public dollars spent on certain things? I sometimes do too. But I would advocate those monies be spent on such things as cancer research and other health crises, environmental improvements, and rebuilding critical infrastructure. Things that the most of us can benefit from. How about insuring poor people can get access to good healthcare through some kind of government insurance program for the poor? (it's a conservative idea I recently heard that I kinda liked).

Point is like I made before, everyone can't have it all. It's a propaganda piece both you and I are being fed through the media, advertising, hollywood, etc. I try each day to make the most of what I have. I can't drive a Bentley so I'm happy with a Subaru (and a junky truck for when I need it).

I think we also have a difference regarding our philosophy of higher Ed. For me, it was something I had to do and I really had no desire to spend more time there than I needed to. For you and many like you I think it's something you dream of doing and you want the best, best, best there is. Neither of us is wrong for thinking that way. Different people from different walks of life will view these issues differently. We can agree to disagree, and I am cool with that.
-GPSNav
Home: Rockaway, NJ - Morris County -- Elevation 745 feet
Work: Newton, NJ - Sussex County -- Elevation 570 feet
Interests: weather, hiking, kayaking, math, science, current events, classic cars, and craft beer

#64
weatherbowl

  • Members
  • 10,442 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern Nassau County
  • Levittown
  • NY
The State University of New York (suny) cost about $8000 per year. If you choose to live on campus it goes to $20000 per year. So there still are reasonable options to getting a good education as some of the SUNY schools and other state schools are very good. So you don't have to spend 40-60000 per year to get a good education. If you choose to spend that much, that's fine. However that is a choice people make and choices have consequences. Having said that, I agree that college is getting out of control but again, you make choices. Community College is fine and can be far less expensive but may not be for everyone. If you are going after a specific area of study that will pay off in a high paying job, then maybe spending more money at a certain school makes sense. However if you don't know what your major will be or your going for a basic liberal arts degree, then the community college may be a place to start.
Eastern Nassau County, Long Island

#65
nyrangers1022

  • Members
  • 1,732 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:cornwall on hudson, NY (orange county )

View Postweatherbowl, on 28 April 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

The State University of New York (suny) cost about $8000 per year. If you choose to live on campus it goes to $20000 per year. So there still are reasonable options to getting a good education as some of the SUNY schools and other state schools are very good. So you don't have to spend 40-60000 per year to get a good education. If you choose to spend that much, that's fine. However that is a choice people make and choices have consequences. Having said that, I agree that college is getting out of control but again, you make choices. Community College is fine and can be far less expensive but may not be for everyone. If you are going after a specific area of study that will pay off in a high paying job, then maybe spending more money at a certain school makes sense. However if you don't know what your major will be or your going for a basic liberal arts degree, then the community college may be a place to start.


I agree. I wasn't sure if college was for me. So I tried community college for 2 semesters. Luckily it was cheap, and paid off the $2500 debt easily. Wasn't for me. Thank God I got into a civil service job

#66
weathergeek87

  • Moderators
  • 10,274 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hamburg, NJ
  • Hamburg
  • NJ
Report yesterday that student loan debt grew to $1.54B
Home: Hamburg, NJ (Hardyston Township, Sussex County) Elevation 700'
Work: Middletown, NY

#67
gpsnavigator

  • Members
  • 1,740 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morris County, NJ

View Postweathergeek87, on 19 October 2018 - 10:44 PM, said:

Report yesterday that student loan debt grew to $1.54B
I do think we need other avenues to success to open up for people to persue, instead of this fixation that higher ed is going to solve the world's problems and automatically put one on the path to greatness, however one wants to define greatness.
-GPSNav
Home: Rockaway, NJ - Morris County -- Elevation 745 feet
Work: Newton, NJ - Sussex County -- Elevation 570 feet
Interests: weather, hiking, kayaking, math, science, current events, classic cars, and craft beer

#68
thundersleet

  • Members
  • 7,575 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Queens, NY

View Postweathergeek87, on 19 October 2018 - 10:44 PM, said:

Report yesterday that student loan debt grew to $1.54B

And then people wonder why millennials are "ruining" the housing market (even though the housing market is a ok)...we are spending too much money on student loan debt to think about a house. (Facepalm)
Carlisle, PA is about 20 miles west-southwest of Harrisburg

J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets!
Let's go Mets!

#69
gpsnavigator

  • Members
  • 1,740 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morris County, NJ

View Postthundersleet, on 20 October 2018 - 04:50 PM, said:

And then people wonder why millennials are "ruining" the housing market (even though the housing market is a ok)...we are spending too much money on student loan debt to think about a house. (Facepalm)
Too many people for far too long have been encouraging your generation to go out and prove yourselves to the world, chase your dreams, be better than us, it's all about you, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. As opposed to encouraging you to live a practical lifestyle within your means and that it's not all about you. The blame for that rests with my generation, my parents generation, school teachers, guidance counselors, family members, politicians, and many others. And a system that is ideological based and not realistically based. I'm not suggesting that if someone really feels their destined for the NFL, or CEO of a company, or to save the planet, that they shouldn't take risks and go for it, but maybe have a backup plan that would be just fine as well.

So no, I guess if I sit back and really think about it, it's not your fault, but rather the culture in which you were raised. And sometimes, Gen X (my generation), isn't much better, since they're actually the ones responsible for trashing the housing market.

And the cycle continues......
-GPSNav
Home: Rockaway, NJ - Morris County -- Elevation 745 feet
Work: Newton, NJ - Sussex County -- Elevation 570 feet
Interests: weather, hiking, kayaking, math, science, current events, classic cars, and craft beer





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users