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#41
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View PostGameOfLove, on 05 August 2015 - 12:08 AM, said:



My brother who is paying about 8% interest because he consolidated his loans way before interest rates dropped and once you consolidated you cannot re-finance them to get a lower rate....Elizabeth Warren has been talking about this a lot. It's disgusting. Obama hasn't done anything about this. Only hope is Sanders and Warren.

Sanders/Warren looks like the best ticket right now. The clown car GOP is just a total mess and Hillary is a corporate sellout who cannot identify with the middle class because she's loaded and in bed with Wall Street. Plus she simply doesn't care. Her whole attitude wreaks of entitlement and it makes me sick just looking at her.

Warren was the first person in politics to really begin discussion on the student loan crisis and Sanders has also promised major reform with it.
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#42
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I know many took offense to my comment about millenials feeling entitled. many said it was my generation looking down on you. Here are some business articles that you may want to read. Employers are getting fed up with the demands many (not all) millenials feel they deserve.

http://www.inc.com/j...-promotion.html

http://www.inc.com/j...tml?cid=sf01002

Its good advice if you are entering the workforce soon or have just entered.

#43
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View Postcarribeanpirate, on 05 August 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

I know many took offense to my comment about millenials feeling entitled. many said it was my generation looking down on you. Here are some business articles that you may want to read. Employers are getting fed up with the demands many (not all) millenials feel they deserve.

http://www.inc.com/j...-promotion.html

http://www.inc.com/j...tml?cid=sf01002

Its good advice if you are entering the workforce soon or have just entered.

Well I am a millennial lol, so if millennials get broad-brushed with anything (positive or negative), I'm probably going to get a little defensive. I don't like the fact that entire generations are viewed as a homogeneous group of people.

With the demands of millennials, I'm not even going to touch there because that doesn't have anything to do with student debt. In this thread, the only demand requested by millennials like Geek and me is that we don't see ourselves or our peers get saddled with a six-figure student loan debt. Okay, maybe we make demands about getting nicer weather or less ice or something haha, but that's a different story.

P.S. The two links are nevertheless useful for employees, but that is universally applicable and not just applicable to millennials.
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#44
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I have a son in College now. I have him going to comunity first to save the money. They dont look at where you went. They look at where you get the degree from.
BTW- I may tell my son to go to prison....At least he can get money that way. lol

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#45
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A professor from NYU was discussing college costs today on the radio. After he basically stated how obscene the costs were he talked about NYU. The current President of NYU took over around 2001 and tuition was about $35000. He wanted to bring the university up in rankings, it was ranked 33 in 2001. So now the total tuition (including all the ridiculous fees) is about $70000. So with the tuition doubling, the ranking with all that extra money has skyrocketed from 33 to 32nd. However listen to this. The current President makes 1.4 million dollars per year. That's nothing. He just recently received 2.5 million dollars as a length of service bonus. He received a "loan" from the university, notice loan is in quotes, to buy a big summer home on Fire Island with a huge indoor swimming pool. This guy will be retiring soon and receiving an $800,000 a year annuity and free health benefits. Meanwhile it is reported that some students have been prostituting to make extra money to pay for the obscene tuition.
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#46
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View Postweatherbowl, on 14 September 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

A professor from NYU was discussing college costs today on the radio. After he basically stated how obscene the costs were he talked about NYU. The current President of NYU took over around 2001 and tuition was about $35000. He wanted to bring the university up in rankings, it was ranked 33 in 2001. So now the total tuition (including all the ridiculous fees) is about $70000. So with the tuition doubling, the ranking with all that extra money has skyrocketed from 33 to 32nd. However listen to this. The current President makes 1.4 million dollars per year. That's nothing. He just recently received 2.5 million dollars as a length of service bonus. He received a "loan" from the university, notice loan is in quotes, to buy a big summer home on Fire Island with a huge indoor swimming pool. This guy will be retiring soon and receiving an $800,000 a year annuity and free health benefits. Meanwhile it is reported that some students have been prostituting to make extra money to pay for the obscene tuition.
I'm glad I don't have kids heading off to college because then I'd be obligated to buy into the whole sham.
These academic buerocrats are just overpaid bloat in my cynical, but humble opinion.
One day we may wake up and realize this obsessive compulsion with regards to academic institutions isn't healthy for the country. What's great for some isn't necessarily good for all.
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#47
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View Postgpsnavigator, on 14 September 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

I'm glad I don't have kids heading off to college because then I'd be obligated to buy into the whole sham.
These academic buerocrats are just overpaid bloat in my cynical, but humble opinion.
One day we may wake up and realize this obsessive compulsion with regards to academic institutions isn't healthy for the country. What's great for some isn't necessarily good for all.

My son is in his junior year of college, out of state. We pay out of pocket about $28k per year. These colleges are out of control and its not only professors driving the cost, its the campus infrastructure itself. On the tour, they showed the renovated lap pool (which was empty), the rock climbing wall (which was open and staffed and no one was using) the new basketball arena (used for basketball and some concerts, but mostly empty) the new dorms (which were awesome) that included Qdoba, Chipoltle and Starbucks. Its a joke, but they have become so ultra competitive, this is what is needed to attract students. We are rapidly reaching the point where the cost of college is not going to be worth the payback.

#48
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View Postcarribeanpirate, on 15 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

My son is in his junior year of college, out of state. We pay out of pocket about $28k per year. These colleges are out of control and its not only professors administrators driving the cost, its the campus infrastructure itself. On the tour, they showed the renovated lap pool (which was empty), the rock climbing wall (which was open and staffed and no one was using) the new basketball arena (used for basketball and some concerts, but mostly empty) the new dorms (which were awesome) that included Qdoba, Chipoltle and Starbucks. Its a joke, but they have become so ultra competitive, this is what is needed to attract students. We are rapidly reaching the point where the cost of college is not going to be worth the payback.

Fixed. The size of administration has skyrocketed at colleges in recent years, much more so than professors. My father, who is a college professor himself, has seen this change happen over his 22 years of teaching.

You have a point about campus infrastructure. Another thing my father talks about (and a thing I notice, as a college student myself) is that colleges are run like resorts a lot of times. Back when my parents went to college, they had mystery meat and the like. Nowadays, my college has a smoothie bar and squash courts as part of a recent $14 million renovation to the athletic center. That $14 million, which was spent on useless stuff like squash courts, is enough to cover all four years of college (with full scholarship/100% financial aid) for 58 students (assuming that school costs $60,000 per year).
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#49
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View Postthundersleet, on 15 September 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

Fixed. The size of administration has skyrocketed at colleges in recent years, much more so than professors. My father, who is a college professor himself, has seen this change happen over his 22 years of teaching.

You have a point about campus infrastructure. Another thing my father talks about (and a thing I notice, as a college student myself) is that colleges are run like resorts a lot of times. Back when my parents went to college, they had mystery meat and the like. Nowadays, my college has a smoothie bar and squash courts as part of a recent $14 million renovation to the athletic center. That $14 million, which was spent on useless stuff like squash courts, is enough to cover all four years of college (with full scholarship/100% financial aid) for 58 students (assuming that school costs $60,000 per year).

They really are. We tell our son to enjoy his country club while he can. The real world is rapidly approaching and if you want squash courts, rock climbing walls, etc, he will be paying for that, while living in my house.

#50
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View Postweatherbowl, on 14 September 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

A professor from NYU was discussing college costs today on the radio. After he basically stated how obscene the costs were he talked about NYU. The current President of NYU took over around 2001 and tuition was about $35000. He wanted to bring the university up in rankings, it was ranked 33 in 2001. So now the total tuition (including all the ridiculous fees) is about $70000. So with the tuition doubling, the ranking with all that extra money has skyrocketed from 33 to 32nd. However listen to this. The current President makes 1.4 million dollars per year. That's nothing. He just recently received 2.5 million dollars as a length of service bonus. He received a "loan" from the university, notice loan is in quotes, to buy a big summer home on Fire Island with a huge indoor swimming pool. This guy will be retiring soon and receiving an $800,000 a year annuity and free health benefits. Meanwhile it is reported that some students have been prostituting to make extra money to pay for the obscene tuition.

Talk about income inequality and they probably do at NYU, well maybe they should look in the mirror.
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#51
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View Postcarribeanpirate, on 15 September 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

They really are. We tell our son to enjoy his country club while he can. The real world is rapidly approaching and if you want squash courts, rock climbing walls, etc, he will be paying for that, while living in my house.

View Postweatherbowl, on 15 September 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Talk about income inequality and they probably do at NYU, well maybe they should look in the mirror.
Agreed and agreed. Your not the first person I've heard apply the label of a country club to college campuses.

There was actually a great segment on this about four weeks ago on the Bill Maher show about campus luxuries, political correctness, and entitlement among the students. Entitlement among certain groups of students. ​
Even though Maher's quite a liberal, he has spoken out about this many times, and I think both of you guys would love listening to this it as it speaks well to your posts.

http://www.mediaite....llege-campuses/

It seems as though some people are managing to be on both sides of the income inequality and free speech arguments. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
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#52
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View Postweatherbowl, on 15 September 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Talk about income inequality and they probably do at NYU, well maybe they should look in the mirror.

You're right, but it's not just NYU either. They talk about stuff such as a living wage at my school, yet I earn under $9 an hour for working in my school's cafeteria. Huh?
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#53
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View Postthundersleet, on 15 September 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

You're right, but it's not just NYU either. They talk about stuff such as a living wage at my school, yet I earn under $9 an hour for working in my school's cafeteria. Huh?
Yeah that doesn't sound right. It's a shame there is much hypocrisy in the academic world, especially among the oligarchs and the elites, and all of those that are driving policy and discussion. That has become pretty clear.

And I don't mean to suggest that all college kids are entitled. I realize my last couple of posts are coming off that way so I will amend it because it's not really what I meant. While I think entitlement is a huge part of the problem, it's not confined to college kids or millennials and it's certainly not everyone. Many of you have been pushed into this by your peers from my generation (Gen X), but others too -- including those same Gen X people who were irresponsible and signed up for stupid morgauges they shouldn't have which led to the housing crisis.
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#54
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View Postgpsnavigator, on 17 September 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

Yeah that doesn't sound right. It's a shame there is much hypocrisy in the academic world, especially among the oligarchs and the elites, and all of those that are driving policy and discussion. That has become pretty clear.

And I don't mean to suggest that all college kids are entitled. I realize my last couple of posts are coming off that way so I will amend it because it's not really what I meant. While I think entitlement is a huge part of the problem, it's not confined to college kids or millennials and it's certainly not everyone. Many of you have been pushed into this by your peers from my generation (Gen X), but others too -- including those same Gen X people who were irresponsible and signed up for stupid morgauges they shouldn't have which led to the housing crisis.

Agreed.

As for the posts about colleges being "shams," it just depends on the college. Some colleges truly are shams. Other colleges (usually the best colleges) leave you in pretty good shape, in both the job market and with debt. Just look at the Ivies. Those colleges probably have the best chance at good job placement due to name recognition of the schools, and furthermore all of the Ivies promise a debt free education.

View Postcarribeanpirate, on 15 September 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

They really are. We tell our son to enjoy his country club while he can. The real world is rapidly approaching and if you want squash courts, rock climbing walls, etc, he will be paying for that, while living in my house.

And the problem is that colleges keep on competing with each other for who has the nicest athletic fields, dorms, facilities, etc. This is a funny (not funny haha, but funny ironic) case of competition actually driving prices up. People in my college's debating society was talking about this recently. In order to see more control in the prices, part of the solution would be an end to this arms race. The problem is that I'm not sure how this arms race will end, or how anyone could conceivably fix it.
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#55
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View Postthundersleet, on 17 September 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Agreed.

As for the posts about colleges being "shams," it just depends on the college. Some colleges truly are shams. Other colleges (usually the best colleges) leave you in pretty good shape, in both the job market and with debt. Just look at the Ivies. Those colleges probably have the best chance at good job placement due to name recognition of the schools, and furthermore all of the Ivies promise a debt free education.



And the problem is that colleges keep on competing with each other for who has the nicest athletic fields, dorms, facilities, etc. This is a funny (not funny haha, but funny ironic) case of competition actually driving prices up. People in my college's debating society was talking about this recently. In order to see more control in the prices, part of the solution would be an end to this arms race. The problem is that I'm not sure how this arms race will end, or how anyone could conceivably fix it.

I think the way it might end is competition by alternatives. For example, online colleges or more students opting for close to home state schools and Jr. Colleges. If the expensive over priced schools start to lose enrollment, they may take action. How about no frills schools. Just give a good education without all the unnecessary perks. Do any students ever look at the salaries of administrators or others that might be making obscene salaries or perks and say it should be changed?
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#56
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Another problem at a lot of colleges (football or basketball) the sports program is bloated with many coaches making well into the millions. Why are we letting colleges be a minor league program to the NBA and NFL?
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#57
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View PostGameOfLove, on 17 September 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

Another problem at a lot of colleges (football or basketball) the sports program is bloated with many coaches making well into the millions. Why are we letting colleges be a minor league program to the NBA and NFL?

Because that's the way our athletic system is set up in the U.S.

In England, where I studied abroad, the "feeder system" for major sports there such as football (soccer) was not colleges (emmm...universities) but youth systems. Instead of Oxford, Cambridge, etc. having major footballing teams, it's clubs like Liverpool, Man United, Norwich City (my favorite soccer team), etc. which act as the feeder for the pros. In fact, if you don't end up in one of these youth academies, you have zero shot of playing high-level football/soccer, rugby, etc.

In the U.S., the system is such that college programs are the requisite for the pros. Much different from the UK, where you have zero chance of going pro if you're playing for University College London's football club.
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#58
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The advertising easily pays the coaches salaries though I agree they do get paid too much. The problem, like you guys alluded to, is the system. Colleges should really stop with the D-1 sports but there's too much money and history for that to ever happen in this country.
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#59
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I think some of the frills that we associate with colleges are also making their way down to the high and middle schools, including excesses within the many athletic programs. On a nearly daily basis I hear "We need______________for our students to be successful (fill in the blank). Examples I've actually heard include laptops for every child, wifi on buses, more money for extra curricular, new athletic fields with better lighting, more security cameras, additional administrators, more resources to get kids to pass standardized tests. Yes, these are actual examples. I'll blame state mandates and the state pitting school and against school for much of the problem. But many also have it in their heads that in order to live a successful life you need _______________( again, fill in the blank).

This mentality increases costs for students and taxpayers. And all of this making schools and colleges better stuff also helps leaders in the field further build their own resumes and continue to move up the corporate ladder. And then what do they do? Hire more buerocrats and outside consultants. The result? We help an elite few and make things harder for many others.

See my point here?

The oligarchs and elites who reap the benefits of all of this keep pouring out the cool aid and we all keep drinking it (see Bill Gates and Common Core).

I too see no end in sight as there is simply too much momentum heading in (the wrong) direction.
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#60
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View Postgpsnavigator, on 17 September 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

I think some of the frills that we associate with colleges are also making their way down to the high and middle schools, including excesses within the many athletic programs. On a nearly daily basis I hear "We need______________for our students to be successful (fill in the blank). Examples I've actually heard include laptops for every child, wifi on buses, more money for extra curricular, new athletic fields with better lighting, more security cameras, additional administrators, more resources to get kids to pass standardized tests. Yes, these are actual examples. I'll blame state mandates and the state pitting school and against school for much of the problem. But many also have it in their heads that in order to live a successful life you need _______________( again, fill in the blank).

This mentality increases costs for students and taxpayers. And all of this making schools and colleges better stuff also helps leaders in the field further build their own resumes and continue to move up the corporate ladder. And then what do they do? Hire more buerocrats and outside consultants. The result? We help an elite few and make things harder for many others.

See my point here?

The oligarchs and elites who reap the benefits of all of this keep pouring out the cool aid and we all keep drinking it (see Bill Gates and Common Core).

I too see no end in sight as there is simply too much momentum heading in (the wrong) direction.

Yeah, it is ridiculous. A lot of people who visit my high school complain about how it lacks certain amenities, but here I am, and I felt like I got a well-rounded high school education. I got a full scholarship to my high school (it's a Catholic HS), but those who paid full freight got cheaper tuition than they would if they attended most other Catholic high schools in NYC.
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