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Terror Attack


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#1
weathergeek87

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Last night @ Orlando gay club.
20 dead, 42 injured. Early indications is he was a jihadist.
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#2
Blizzard78

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Now up to 50 dead 53 injured. Very very sad. sick world we live in
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i'm a deplorable who lives on another planet

#3
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What I just posted on Facebook, as a thought/reflection:

Quote

It's a dark dark day with the mass shooting in Orlando. 50 dead. However, we do nothing to keep guns out of the hands of people who really shouldn't have guns (suspect was under investigation by the FBI). We do nothing to change the culture that the solution to so many problems is by killing people. We do nothing more than say that "we're sorry" and "we're in your prayers." While I believe in the power of prayer, there comes a point where just a simple prayer doesn't cut it anymore. It's time for action. And that action certainly ain't going to come from the government knowing how the government responds to these mass shootings as much as it responds to a brick wall. That action has to come from each and every one of us as individuals, individuals who promote a culture of nonviolence in everything that we do, including but not limited to the Facebook posts we make, the ways we interact with people, the policies of our politicians we support or reject, our attitudes about guns (for those who are gun owners), and even stuff such as the video games we buy or play and the movies/TV shows we watch. If we are sick of killings like today, we need to start doing our parts to reject a culture which glorifies violence and conflict instead of peace.

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#4
robbbs

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View Postthundersleet, on 12 June 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

What I just posted on Facebook, as a thought/reflection:

Good luck with that Facebook post. And as for guns, you could take away all the guns in the country, and the bad guys would still have a way of getting and using them, but the rest of us would not (and this coming from someone who is liberal on most policy issues). All the talk of gun control and Obama's speeches with that same message after any mass shooting, miss the mark completely.
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#5
thundersleet

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View Postrobbbs, on 12 June 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Good luck with that Facebook post. And as for guns, you could take away all the guns in the country, and the bad guys would still have a way of getting and using them, but the rest of us would not (and this coming from someone who is liberal on most policy issues). All the talk of gun control and Obama's speeches with that same message after any mass shooting, miss the mark completely.

I agree with you to an extent. But the question I'll ask you is this: if not guns, then what? Personally, I think that part of the problem is that our culture is one where killing is glorified at some times (video games and wars where we're viewed as kicking a**), and that our culture views killing as the solution to too many problems (hence using war as a solution to stop evil powers, the death penalty as a solution to get rid of evil criminals, abortion as the solution to deal with babies with defects, etc.). I'm not saying that the culture of death-as-the-solution is unique to the U.S. either, but the idea of death-as-solution is certainly a thing. And that needs to change. I don't think it's something that the two of us could change single-handedly, but we can certainly do our little parts.
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#6
thundersleet

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View Postthundersleet, on 12 June 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

I agree with you to an extent. But the question I'll ask you is this: if not guns, then what? Personally, I think that part of the problem is that our culture is one where killing is glorified at some times (video games and wars where we're viewed as kicking a**), and that our culture views killing as the solution to too many problems (hence using war as a solution to stop evil powers, the death penalty as a solution to get rid of evil criminals, abortion as the solution to deal with babies with defects, etc.). I'm not saying that the culture of death-as-the-solution is unique to the U.S. either, but the idea of death-as-solution is certainly a thing. And that needs to change. I don't think it's something that the two of us could change single-handedly, but we can certainly do our little parts.

Basically, I think things are far more complex than what either party makes it out to be.
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#7
carribeanpirate

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This is not about guns....this is a terrorist attack. Not a bias attack, not a "mass shooting", not someone wantonly shooting people because he is mentally ill, or whatever new PC name the media/liberals/progressives want to call it today... he did it in the name of his Muslim faith, in the name of Allah. When we start calling it what it is, we will start to make some change. Only When we start saying out loud that Muslims are an issue, like the Japanese in WWII, will we make a difference. Until then, we offer thoughts and prayers and 50 families who wished their loved ones well last night as they headed out for a night of fun are left to deal with the aftermath of an event that the government really doesn't seem to care about.

Frankly, today is just another day in the New America. We will post things on social media, say we stand with Orlando, probably many comments about this being a hate crime and in three days, go back to posting memes about Steph Curry's sneakers or why Donald Trump is a racist. We cause our own problems because of how shallow of a society we have become.


#8
thundersleet

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View Postcarribeanpirate, on 12 June 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

This is not about guns....this is a terrorist attack. Not a bias attack, not a "mass shooting", not someone wantonly shooting people because he is mentally ill, or whatever new PC name the media/liberals/progressives want to call it today... he did it in the name of his Muslim faith, in the name of Allah. When we start calling it what it is, we will start to make some change. Only When we start saying out loud that Muslims are an issue, like the Japanese in WWII, will we make a difference. Until then, we offer thoughts and prayers and 50 families who wished their loved ones well last night as they headed out for a night of fun are left to deal with the aftermath of an event that the government really doesn't seem to care about.

Frankly, today is just another day in the New America. We will post things on social media, say we stand with Orlando, probably many comments about this being a hate crime and in three days, go back to posting memes about Steph Curry's sneakers or why Donald Trump is a racist. We cause our own problems because of how shallow of a society we have become.

But it's worth making the distinction that it's not ALL Muslims that are an issue. It's only a small, extremist sector. It is worth remembering for example that the recently deceased Muhammad Ali was a very vocal Muslim and was the absolute opposite of what happened today...his beliefs led him to reject the draft and get himself banned from boxing during what may've been the prime of his career because of the stand he took.
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#9
carribeanpirate

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Bull-sheet-rock. Time to stop pandering about the religion of peace. The only terror attacks on the west are Muslim based, our PC culture has put us here. France's president took a hard line after Paris attacks. Our mealy mouthed president just gives us more of the same glad handing.

Sleet, I respect your thoughts, you are one of the people who think and use your brain on this thread, but, I disagrre with you.

#10
thundersleet

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View Postcarribeanpirate, on 12 June 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Bull-sheet-rock. Time to stop pandering about the religion of peace. The only terror attacks on the west are Muslim based, our PC culture has put us here. France's president took a hard line after Paris attacks. Our mealy mouthed president just gives us more of the same glad handing.

Sleet, I respect your thoughts, you are one of the people who think and use your brain on this thread, but, I disagrre with you.

Actually that's not true. Depending on what you classify as a terrorist attack, you can count Sandy Hook, Aurora, Charleston, Oklahoma City, Waco, etc. as attacks in the West which are NOT Muslim-based. At the very least we can agree on Oklahoma City as a terror attack I assume though idk about your feelings with the other ones.

No doubt, there is a problem with Muslim Extremism. That much we can agree on. But I think it's important to stress that it's a small sector of people, and I actually think it's wise for the President to be careful with his language here. Yes, I am taking the unpopular stand of advocating for being PC. I advocate for doing that because of the consequences of not doing so--think about it, if you single out Muslims, are Muslims more likely to commit attacks against this country out of anger? I think the answer is yes, and therefore I think it's actually wise of the President to be careful with the language he uses.

I respect a lot of your thoughts too Pirate, as you too seem to use your brain. We just happen to disagree on a lot of issues, and I think said disagreement (provided that it's civil) is healthy for the board. Anyway, wouldn't it be so boring if everyone on here had the same exact views on everything?
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#11
vascudave

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View Postthundersleet, on 12 June 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:



But it's worth making the distinction that it's not ALL Muslims that are an issue. It's only a small, extremist sector. It is worth remembering for example that the recently deceased Muhammad Ali was a very vocal Muslim and was the absolute opposite of what happened today...his beliefs led him to reject the draft and get himself banned from boxing during what may've been the prime of his career because of the stand he took.

View Postcarribeanpirate, on 12 June 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Bull-sheet-rock. Time to stop pandering about the religion of peace. The only terror attacks on the west are Muslim based, our PC culture has put us here. France's president took a hard line after Paris attacks. Our mealy mouthed president just gives us more of the same glad handing.

Sleet, I respect your thoughts, you are one of the people who think and use your brain on this thread, but, I disagrre with you.

View Postthundersleet, on 12 June 2016 - 09:17 PM, said:



Actually that's not true. Depending on what you classify as a terrorist attack, you can count Sandy Hook, Aurora, Charleston, Oklahoma City, Waco, etc. as attacks in the West which are NOT Muslim-based. At the very least we can agree on Oklahoma City as a terror attack I assume though idk about your feelings with the other ones.

No doubt, there is a problem with Muslim Extremism. That much we can agree on. But I think it's important to stress that it's a small sector of people, and I actually think it's wise for the President to be careful with his language here. Yes, I am taking the unpopular stand of advocating for being PC. I advocate for doing that because of the consequences of not doing so--think about it, if you single out Muslims, are Muslims more likely to commit attacks against this country out of anger? I think the answer is yes, and therefore I think it's actually wise of the President to be careful with the language he uses.

I respect a lot of your thoughts too Pirate, as you too seem to use your brain. We just happen to disagree on a lot of issues, and I think said disagreement (provided that it's civil) is healthy for the board. Anyway, wouldn't it be so boring if everyone on here had the same exact views on everything?
THERES PROBLEMS WITH COUNTRIES THAT STILL CURRENTLY HAVE LAWS LIKE THIS. THIS IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE.
https://www.washingt...ished-by-death/

#12
vascudave

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more nonsense

http://www.cnn.com/2...jail/index.html

#13
metfan4life

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This guy was outraged because he saw 2 guys kissing. SMFH.
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#14
carribeanpirate

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View Postthundersleet, on 12 June 2016 - 09:17 PM, said:

Actually that's not true. Depending on what you classify as a terrorist attack, you can count Sandy Hook, Aurora, Charleston, Oklahoma City, Waco, etc. as attacks in the West which are NOT Muslim-based. At the very least we can agree on Oklahoma City as a terror attack I assume though idk about your feelings with the other ones.

No doubt, there is a problem with Muslim Extremism. That much we can agree on. But I think it's important to stress that it's a small sector of people, and I actually think it's wise for the President to be careful with his language here. Yes, I am taking the unpopular stand of advocating for being PC. I advocate for doing that because of the consequences of not doing so--think about it, if you single out Muslims, are Muslims more likely to commit attacks against this country out of anger? I think the answer is yes, and therefore I think it's actually wise of the President to be careful with the language he uses.

I respect a lot of your thoughts too Pirate, as you too seem to use your brain. We just happen to disagree on a lot of issues, and I think said disagreement (provided that it's civil) is healthy for the board. Anyway, wouldn't it be so boring if everyone on here had the same exact views on everything?

I highlighted one part here and I think its where figures and percentages lie. Our government like to tell us that "only"10% of Muslims are radicalized. Sounds small, right? However, there are 1.5 Billion (with a B) Muslims in the world, meaning 150 million radicalized Muslims in the world. That's half the population of the United States and is not really a small number.

The US is involved in a religious war and wants to ignore it. We are not equipped to fight a religious war, we like to define our enemies as countries, not beliefs. I understand the point that we have never had a religious litmus test for entry into the US, but we have never had a war based on religion in our lifetime either. We have to change things as the situation dictates. Look, there are people who want to keep the Olympic team from going to Brazil for fear of Zika virus, yet the same folks are up in arms over looking into the backgrounds of Muslim immigrants.

Frankly, I think this is what Trump is saying, albeit, in really bad language and words. So, I dont mind people hating the words Trump uses, but the logic and argument make sense when you think about it.

#15
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View Postmetfan4life, on 13 June 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

This guy was outraged because he saw 2 guys kissing. SMFH.

This message from the same people who told us Bengazi was caused by an online video. Not sure I believe this one just yet.

#16
thundersleet

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View Postvascudave, on 13 June 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

THERES PROBLEMS WITH COUNTRIES THAT STILL CURRENTLY HAVE LAWS LIKE THIS. THIS IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE.
https://www.washingt...ished-by-death/

I agree that it's a disgrace. But the attacker today was born in the United States, in New York City no less. So I'm not sure how much what you said is traceable to these countries, other than maybe in religion (and that may be your answer). But if we target Muslims here and not look at the damage so many Judeo-Christians around the world have done, and continue to do, to homosexuals, we are hypocrites. We should confront hate towards homosexuals from all sides, not just hate towards homosexuals from Muslims.
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#17
thundersleet

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View Postcarribeanpirate, on 13 June 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

I highlighted one part here and I think its where figures and percentages lie. Our government like to tell us that "only"10% of Muslims are radicalized. Sounds small, right? However, there are 1.5 Billion (with a B) Muslims in the world, meaning 150 million radicalized Muslims in the world. That's half the population of the United States and is not really a small number.

The US is involved in a religious war and wants to ignore it. We are not equipped to fight a religious war, we like to define our enemies as countries, not beliefs. I understand the point that we have never had a religious litmus test for entry into the US, but we have never had a war based on religion in our lifetime either. We have to change things as the situation dictates. Look, there are people who want to keep the Olympic team from going to Brazil for fear of Zika virus, yet the same folks are up in arms over looking into the backgrounds of Muslim immigrants.

Frankly, I think this is what Trump is saying, albeit, in really bad language and words. So, I dont mind people hating the words Trump uses, but the logic and argument make sense when you think about it.

How could anyone make up a number of how many radicalized Muslims are around the world? And how do you define radicalized? While I am not a conspiracy theorist believing that the government is always full of lies, I take that number with a grain of salt because that sort of stuff seems impossible to measure.

The Muslim immigrant thing is a non-issue to me in this case. The attacker was born and raised in New York City, just like me. I see Trump in this case as talking about an issue that has little relevance to what happened. Trump's ban would've done nothing to prevent what happened in Florida yesterday.
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#18
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View Postthundersleet, on 13 June 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:



I agree that it's a disgrace. But the attacker today was born in the United States, in New York City no less. So I'm not sure how much what you said is traceable to these countries, other than maybe in religion (and that may be your answer). But if we target Muslims here and not look at the damage so many Judeo-Christians around the world have done, and continue to do, to homosexuals, we are hypocrites. We should confront hate towards homosexuals from all sides, not just hate towards homosexuals from Muslims.
hes raised that way. regardless there aren't any Christian countries that stone to death (by law) homosexuals, are they? theres Christian fanatics sure but no one supports them except themselves. not hypocritical at all


#19
thundersleet

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View Postvascudave, on 13 June 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

hes raised that way. regardless there aren't any Christian countries that stone to death (by law) homosexuals, are they? theres Christian fanatics sure but no one supports them except themselves. not hypocritical at all

No. Instead many Christians (including some in this country) condemn them to hell, which is also pretty awful. With that in mind, is it any wonder that suicide rates are so incredibly high among people in the LGBTQ community?
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#20
thundersleet

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View Postthundersleet, on 13 June 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

No. Instead many Christians (including some in this country) condemn them to hell, which is also pretty awful. With that in mind, is it any wonder that suicide rates are so incredibly high among people in the LGBTQ community?

And I'm saying that as a Christian, so I am being equal opportunity here. I don't justify what a number of Muslim countries do with homosexuals, but at the same time I don't justify what many Christians do with homosexuals either.
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