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ASSUALT ALLEGATIONS


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#1
vascudave

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guess we should start one...
guess franken thought he was being funny

http://www.cnn.com/2...ment/index.html

#2
vascudave

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dope even posed for a pic!
he should resign immediately

#3
carribeanpirate

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Amazing that CNN did not call for his resignation....

HAHAHAHAHA, I make myself laugh so hard sometimes.....

#4
weathergeek87

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CNN protects their own. They are part of the ruling class.
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#5
carribeanpirate

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Most progressive rags online either barely mention Franken or simply post his "apology", while at the same time calling on Roy Moore to resign.

We've returned to the days of yellow journalism and that may be an insult to yellow journalism of the late 1800's.

EDIT: Here is a link to a lovely article where Franken pitched a skit for SNL where Lesley Stahl is raped. I guess rape is funny when liberal/progressives are the ones making the joke.


http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.3637714

#6
thundersleet

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I think that, given the Franken accusations and given my passion for issues like this and given the fact that I tend to be the most leftist person who participates in the politics thread, I felt it was important for me to comment even though I don't have much time in my life right now (and I probably won't be too responsive to replies to my comment)...

What Al Franken did was disgusting. There's no sugarcoating that.

At the same time, I'm glad that the accuser had the courage to come forward so that it's clear that this problem is not a partisan one, that both Democrats and Republicans can be sexual predators. It is an American problem, even a worldwide problem.

It's a problem Congress will need to deal with, as there is probably more to come out. Can Democrats and Moderate Republicans expel Roy Moore but not Al Franken without looking like partisan hypocrites? Are apologies enough, and if so, what sort of apologies? Do apologies even matter?

Both major political parties will need to grapple with these sorts of issues. How can the Republicans brand themselves as the "party of family values" when they have predators like Roy Moore and Donald Trump on their side? How can Democrats brand themselves as being "pro-women" when they have predators like Bill Clinton and Al Franken?

We, as voters, also need to confront this head-on. Namely, why does the voting population seem to not care about our representatives committing acts of sexual violence? We responded to Bill Clinton's scandal by giving him a higher approval rating. We responded to Trump's scandal by electing him President of the United States. People in Alabama may still elect Roy Moore in spite of his issues. And I would not be the least bit surprised to see Minnesota re-elect Al Franken next time around in spite of his issues (he was popular there before the scandal).

Yes, what Al Franken did was disgusting, and I think that he should resign or be expelled from the Senate if his apology turns out to be insincere and/or if more women come out (if it's just one person and he is sincere, I accept the apology as even his accuser accepted the apology). But if Al Franken is the only one who reflects on all of this, we're keeping ourselves from conversations which have any potential to change the culture of sexual violence in the political realm.
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#7
weathergeek87

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TS - there is still no proof in the Moore case

With Franken, he should step down immediately as there is photo proof and he has admitted to it.
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#8
thundersleet

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 weathergeek87, on 16 November 2017 - 09:46 PM, said:

TS - there is still no proof in the Moore case

With Franken, he should step down immediately as there is photo proof and he has admitted to it.

Geek-There is overwhelming proof in Moore's case; the only difference is that while Franken admitted to it and apologized, Moore is unapologetic. He got banned from a mall because he was known to make unwanted advances on young women at the mall; this was back in the 70s and 80s when it was really difficult to get banned from a mall apparently. You have what...now 8 women? And to make matters worse, you have patterns developing...they were by-in-large women waaaaay younger than Moore and several of them were groped. The fact that you see these patterns makes it all the more likely that something was not on the up and up. Even his former colleagues in judgeship said that he was known to date younger girls (which by itself isn't evidence, but it does fit with the fact that most of the accusers are younger girls). There's probably even more but that's a start. There comes a point when we have to look past the party labels and look at the facts for what they are, and those are the facts.
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#9
weathergeek87

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 thundersleet, on 16 November 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:



Geek-There is overwhelming proof in Moore's case; the only difference is that while Franken admitted to it and apologized, Moore is unapologetic. He got banned from a mall because he was known to make unwanted advances on young women at the mall; this was back in the 70s and 80s when it was really difficult to get banned from a mall apparently. You have what...now 8 women? And to make matters worse, you have patterns developing...they were by-in-large women waaaaay younger than Moore and several of them were groped. The fact that you see these patterns makes it all the more likely that something was not on the up and up. Even his former colleagues in judgeship said that he was known to date younger girls (which by itself isn't evidence, but it does fit with the fact that most of the accusers are younger girls). There's probably even more but that's a start. There comes a point when we have to look past the party labels and look at the facts for what they are, and those are the facts.

I don't see any overwhelming evidence.
Got and pictures? Videos? The most I've seen is a signed yearbook which is meaningless.
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#10
carribeanpirate

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I'll mention Bob Menendez in this thread, who is as corrupt as they come, but in NJ that is considered a badge of honor. Take the charges that he just got away with, there was another part his relationship with Salomon Melgen that was mentioned early on and that was Melgen's stable of young (code for "underage") girls he had at his compound in the Dominican Republic.

So, here is another one of our Senator's with shady business dealings and perhaps another predator. And I will bet a large amount of money the good folks of NJ will re-elect him our Senator in 2018. I'll go on the record now and say I will not be voting for him.

#11
vascudave

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we'll never see Hillary run for office again.
mika on msnbc this am(I listen for laughs) said bill should have stepped down from his presidency. instead he was praised as one of the best.

#12
vascudave

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 weathergeek87, on 16 November 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:



I don't see any overwhelming evidence.
Got and pictures? Videos? The most I've seen is a signed yearbook which is meaningless.
there is a fine line here
from believing the accusers to, well, innocent until proven.
franken must resign
moore I think was shady at minimum
problem is its 2017 and we're revisiting with our 2017 eyes.


#13
metfan4life

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 weathergeek87, on 16 November 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

I don't see any overwhelming evidence.
Got and pictures? Videos? The most I've seen is a signed yearbook which is meaningless.

Moore's lawyer is saying how the signatures in the yearbook are different.
Anthony

#14
vascudave

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 metfan4life, on 17 November 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:



Moore's lawyer is saying how the signatures in the yearbook are different.
AND CALLIng for a expert to analyze

IDK
IMO he should step down anyway

#15
carribeanpirate

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 vascudave, on 17 November 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:


problem is its 2017 and we're revisiting with our 2017 eyes.

This ^.

In a nutshell this is the problem. I am old enough to remember (barely) when it was "acceptable" behavior. If you dont, watch a few episodes of Mad Men. Its not just a TV show, its a view into what the world was like then. So, fast forward.....Mad Men would be completely unacceptable in today's world, as it should be. However, if Don Draper was running for Senate today, would the acceptable behavior of his past (40 year past) now be held against him? Should it be an issue if he has been able to change with the times, i.e. correcting that bad behavior?

#16
thundersleet

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 carribeanpirate, on 17 November 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

I'll mention Bob Menendez in this thread, who is as corrupt as they come, but in NJ that is considered a badge of honor. Take the charges that he just got away with, there was another part his relationship with Salomon Melgen that was mentioned early on and that was Melgen's stable of young (code for "underage") girls he had at his compound in the Dominican Republic.

So, here is another one of our Senator's with shady business dealings and perhaps another predator. And I will bet a large amount of money the good folks of NJ will re-elect him our Senator in 2018. I'll go on the record now and say I will not be voting for him.

Yeah Menendez is awful. Before Democrats get too confident about taking the Senate, they have to worry about Jersey. Republicans can win at the state level there and Christie, dreadful as he is, demonstrated that. Twice. Republicans need a competent candidate though...someone too thoroughly associated with Christie and/or Trump may yet lose to Menendez.
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#17
thundersleet

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 vascudave, on 17 November 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:


AND CALLIng for a expert to analyze

IDK
IMO he should step down anyway

Yep...for the good of the party and the Republican vision of the country.

Imagine if the polls hold and the Democrat Doug Jones wins. This would mean that many parts of the Trump and Republican agenda that aren't passed by the time a Senator Jones would be sworn in would be in even deeper trouble. But Moore dropping out and a write in candidate from the Republican side winning would keep things as is.
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#18
thundersleet

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 weathergeek87, on 16 November 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:



I don't see any overwhelming evidence.
Got and pictures? Videos? The most I've seen is a signed yearbook which is meaningless.

The problem though is that if the standard of evidence is pictures and videos, we would be denying the overwhelming majority of sexual assault stories. Including my mom's story, by the way. I don't think that is healthy either.
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#19
carribeanpirate

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Great article in the Atlantic, probably 20 years overdue, but better late than never.


https://www.theatlan...ry-knew/546170/

#20
vascudave

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 thundersleet, on 17 November 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:



The problem though is that if the standard of evidence is pictures and videos, we would be denying the overwhelming majority of sexual assault stories. Including my mom's story, by the way. I don't think that is healthy either.
agree, though with that said, I would hedge that even in the cases of proven abuse. if said abuses were actually video taped. the recollection would change with what actually happened 20-40 years ago. that's for the accused and the accuser.
we cant deny accusers but how are things proven?
its standard for our system of justice. otherwise everyone accused will be guilty(even though they may not be).







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