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Congrats Justice Kavanugh


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#1
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Finally
Anthony

#2
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Thank God! Sanity, common sense and decency has prevailed. No we just need Ginsberg to retire/expire :hyper:

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I honestly wasn't really rooting for this guy - since I remember how bad the Republicans acted with Merritt Garland. And yet, this managed to be worse.

The problem on the other side, with the Democrats, is they are now basically a two issue party - sexual assault and sexual harassment. And I'm not poo pooing the importance of such a conversation, but all else is gone by way of the wind. Already some Democrats are talking up impeachment of Kavanaugh and millions of $ are being earmarked to out Collins in 2020.

I just don't know how you move forward continually politicizing such an issue, leaving the impression that all men are guilty and all women are innocent, and expect to be able to govern effectively and win elections. At some point, due process has to be in the conversation. As do other issues. And the fact that women are actually, in most cases, better off then they were half a century ago. Yet instead all we have is emotion and ideology intertwined in a narrative that is both ineffective and bad for the country.
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View Postwishcast_hater, on 06 October 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

Thank God! Sanity, common sense and decency has prevailed. No we just need Ginsberg to retire/expire :hyper:/>

It will happen and Trump will get to nominate another justice. Lol. The liberal left meltdown will continue.
By the way, have you guys seen some of the comments coming out of Hollywood? They are deranged.
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#5
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Everyone knows that I am pretty leftist on many issues (and still am). But honestly, I am disgusted with the way BOTH sides have handled this.

With the Democrats, I'm extremely disappointed that they were looking to oppose no matter what. Before Trump even announced a decision, Democrats were coming out and saying that they were going to oppose the Trump nominee. It's one thing to study the record of the person in question and then oppose, but it's another thing entirely to oppose before you really study the record. The Democrats, with a few notable exceptions, showed a complete lack of thoughtfulness in many ways.

With the Republicans, the rush to confirm Kavanaugh (and limiting FBI investigations to 1 week, instead of giving them as much time as they need to complete their investigations, no matter the result) comes across as if they did not take sexual assault seriously. Maybe I'm being "overemotional" as a son of a survivor and the friend of more survivors than I can count (while on the other hand not knowing a single man who has falsely been accused of sexual assault), but it was off-putting the way the "investigation" was handled. I personally believe Dr. Ford over Justice Kavanaugh, but I would've rather had the thorough FBI investigation (even if it found that I was wrong) comb through the 1,200 tips and take all the necessary and proper time in doing so. Finding the truth is more important than political interest.

Ultimately, there is not much I am proud of, with the senators on both sides.

One thing that's not being talked about though is the substance of Senator Susan Collins' speech when she announced her "yes" vote. Conservatives are thrilled that Collins is a "yes" while liberals are furious, but if Kavanaugh is even 80% of the justice that Collins describes, there will be a lot of head-scratching. If Susan Collins is right, Democrats will wonder why they fought so hard against him while Republicans will wonder why they fought so hard for him. Collins described a Kavanaugh that would uphold same-sex marriage, uphold Roe, and thinks that there are limits to the protections that a president has. I obviously hope Collins is right, but time will tell.
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#6
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View Postthundersleet, on 07 October 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Everyone knows that I am pretty leftist on many issues (and still am). But honestly, I am disgusted with the way BOTH sides have handled this.

With the Democrats, I'm extremely disappointed that they were looking to oppose no matter what. Before Trump even announced a decision, Democrats were coming out and saying that they were going to oppose the Trump nominee. It's one thing to study the record of the person in question and then oppose, but it's another thing entirely to oppose before you really study the record. The Democrats, with a few notable exceptions, showed a complete lack of thoughtfulness in many ways.

With the Republicans, the rush to confirm Kavanaugh (and limiting FBI investigations to 1 week, instead of giving them as much time as they need to complete their investigations, no matter the result) comes across as if they did not take sexual assault seriously. Maybe I'm being "overemotional" as a son of a survivor and the friend of more survivors than I can count (while on the other hand not knowing a single man who has falsely been accused of sexual assault), but it was off-putting the way the "investigation" was handled. I personally believe Dr. Ford over Justice Kavanaugh, but I would've rather had the thorough FBI investigation (even if it found that I was wrong) comb through the 1,200 tips and take all the necessary and proper time in doing so. Finding the truth is more important than political interest.

Ultimately, there is not much I am proud of, with the senators on both sides.

One thing that's not being talked about though is the substance of Senator Susan Collins' speech when she announced her "yes" vote. Conservatives are thrilled that Collins is a "yes" while liberals are furious, but if Kavanaugh is even 80% of the justice that Collins describes, there will be a lot of head-scratching. If Susan Collins is right, Democrats will wonder why they fought so hard against him while Republicans will wonder why they fought so hard for him. Collins described a Kavanaugh that would uphold same-sex marriage, uphold Roe, and thinks that there are limits to the protections that a president has. I obviously hope Collins is right, but time will tell.
THey would have had more than enough time to investigated back in what, july/august when Feinstein got the letter?
all politics.
dems 100% blame on this
due process prevails

#7
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View Postvascudave, on 08 October 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:


THey would have had more than enough time to investigated back in what, july/august when Feinstein got the letter?
all politics.
dems 100% blame on this
due process prevails

No. Trump initially didn't want the FBI investigation and the only reason it was opened (even for one week) was because three senators (Flake, Collins, and Murkowski) who would've decided the fate of Kavanaugh wouldn't vote for him without an investigation. Without those three senators, there would've been no investigation. The Republicans aren't saints in all of this either.
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#8
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View Postvascudave, on 08 October 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:


THey would have had more than enough time to investigated back in what, july/august when Feinstein got the letter?
all politics.
dems 100% blame on this
due process prevails

But the way Feinstein's office handled this letter should be investigated too. Heck, let's investigate her without a time limit while we investigate Kavanaugh without a time limit.
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#9
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had plenty of time

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View Postgpsnavigator, on 06 October 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

I honestly wasn't really rooting for this guy - since I remember how bad the Republicans acted with Merritt Garland. And yet, this managed to be worse.

The problem on the other side, with the Democrats, is they are now basically a two issue party - sexual assault and sexual harassment. And I'm not poo pooing the importance of such a conversation, but all else is gone by way of the wind. Already some Democrats are talking up impeachment of Kavanaugh and millions of $ are being earmarked to out Collins in 2020.

I just don't know how you move forward continually politicizing such an issue, leaving the impression that all men are guilty and all women are innocent, and expect to be able to govern effectively and win elections. At some point, due process has to be in the conversation. As do other issues. And the fact that women are actually, in most cases, better off then they were half a century ago. Yet instead all we have is emotion and ideology intertwined in a narrative that is both ineffective and bad for the country.

Their party platform is only "we're not Trump". In many places this will play well (both coasts) but in Middle America its going to hurt them. Being the majority party is hard to defend because people look at "balancing power". This year could be the exception to the rule. I dont rule out republicans holding a majority in both houses or picking up seats. In fact, I think the NJ senate race could be THE race and be the swing vote between who owns the majority. I think both parties will be pushing hard to get their guy elected, meaning plenty of TV ads and visits by high powered people.

The Kavanaigh hearings woke up the Republican base and energized them. It will be interesting to see if it holds for another month.

#11
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View Postthundersleet, on 08 October 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

No. Trump initially didn't want the FBI investigation and the only reason it was opened (even for one week) was because three senators (Flake, Collins, and Murkowski) who would've decided the fate of Kavanaugh wouldn't vote for him without an investigation. Without those three senators, there would've been no investigation. The Republicans aren't saints in all of this either.

Why don't you understand that the Democrats are the party of RESIST?
Why don't you understand that no matter who the Republicans nominated the Dems would object?
Why don't you understand that no matter how many FBI investigations were conducted it would never be enough as long as Kavanaugh was found innocent?
Why don't you understand that if Dr. Fords' accusations were brought to an actual criminal court that it would never get to trial due to ZERO EVIDENCE.

The American public is fed up with this BS that if someone makes an accusation the accused is guilty first then acquitted later after lives have been destroyed. I promise you that more women believe Kavanaugh over Ford. The media is totally controlled by the left and the sheeple who believe CNN is the gospel would never know better since they are unable to weigh evidence in an educated and reasonable manner. Do you realize that many of the people who disrupted the hearings were PAID to be there? There is video evidence showing this. This travesty is 100% on the democrats and whats great is that they are so warped and hell bent on being anti Trump that they are alienating more and more people. Sore Losers......



The Republicans were sympathetic to Dr. Fords situation and in all honesty she had NOTHING


The Republicans caved to the Democrats request of a 7th FBI Investigation

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View Postvascudave, on 08 October 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:


Had plenty of time...and the investigation wasn't called until end of September. And only when a few swing senators said that they didn't feel comfortable voting "yes" without an investigation.
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#13
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View Postcarribeanpirate, on 08 October 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

Their party platform is only "we're not Trump". In many places this will play well (both coasts) but in Middle America its going to hurt them. Being the majority party is hard to defend because people look at "balancing power". This year could be the exception to the rule. I dont rule out republicans holding a majority in both houses or picking up seats. In fact, I think the NJ senate race could be THE race and be the swing vote between who owns the majority. I think both parties will be pushing hard to get their guy elected, meaning plenty of TV ads and visits by high powered people.

The Kavanaigh hearings woke up the Republican base and energized them. It will be interesting to see if it holds for another month.

It will be interesting to see. Dems are arguing that the Kavanaugh hearings woke up Democrats. The reality is that there may be another story between now and then that wakes up a key group of voters. If Muller comes out and says "nothing more to see here," that, in combination with a strong jobs report at the beginning of November, would greatly help Republicans. On the other hand, if we get to the beginning of November and we have breaking news that several high-profile Trump Administration officials (current or former) are convicted on charges related to the current investigations, then the Democrats would be energized.

I personally think that the Senate is an uphill battle, but the House might be doable for Dems.
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#14
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View Postcarribeanpirate, on 08 October 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

Their party platform is only "we're not Trump".

That's it. That's all they have to offer. Here in NY where Cuomo is up for re-election, that's all his (never-ending) ads mention. Started with the primary, where he was running against an actress and didn't need to spend a lot of money. However, on TV and radio the commercials were constant and all that was mentioned was Trump, Trump, Trump and nothing actually about New York. And no doubt it will pick up again soon when they start ramping up the ads for the general election. He clearly has no interest in being governor anymore, so he's simply setting up for his POTUS bid. It's been amusing to watch the process as it just shows how screwed up these parties are - but particularly Dems. Initially, as gov, he wasn't completely terrible as he was fairly moderate. But now that he is only focused on getting the Dem nomination in 2020, he goes a mile further to left every day since that is what it will take. The most radical and extreme candidate will win the nomination. Then, they will immediately have to pivot and try to claim they are moderate in order to win the general election.
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View Postwishcast_hater, on 08 October 2018 - 03:35 PM, said:

Why don't you understand that the Democrats are the party of RESIST?
Why don't you understand that no matter who the Republicans nominated the Dems would object?
Why don't you understand that no matter how many FBI investigations were conducted it would never be enough as long as Kavanaugh was found innocent?
Why don't you understand that if Dr. Fords' accusations were brought to an actual criminal court that it would never get to trial due to ZERO EVIDENCE.

The American public is fed up with this BS that if someone makes an accusation the accused is guilty first then acquitted later after lives have been destroyed. I promise you that more women believe Kavanaugh over Ford. The media is totally controlled by the left and the sheeple who believe CNN is the gospel would never know better since they are unable to weigh evidence in an educated and reasonable manner. Do you realize that many of the people who disrupted the hearings were PAID to be there? There is video evidence showing this. This travesty is 100% on the democrats and whats great is that they are so warped and hell bent on being anti Trump that they are alienating more and more people. Sore Losers......



The Republicans were sympathetic to Dr. Fords situation and in all honesty she had NOTHING


The Republicans caved to the Democrats request of a 7th FBI Investigation

Some of the things you say here are true (being the party of Resist, and Democrats opposing whoever Trump nominated, for example). Both of which I found problematic.

In terms of Dr. Ford's accusations, they wouldn't have reached a criminal court. But that's not because of evidence...it's because of the Statute of Limitations.

You are incorrect though about believing Kavanaugh over Ford. More Americans overall believe Ford than Kavanaugh: https://thehill.com/...asey-ford-than. But regardless of polling, I'm more interested in finding the truth than what polls say.

You are also incorrect about Ford having "nothing." She had something, and actually, her story (including not remembering every detail/trying to forget certain details) is in some ways eerily similar to my mom's own sexual assault.
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#16
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View PostMike_The_Golfer, on 08 October 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

That's it. That's all they have to offer. Here in NY where Cuomo is up for re-election, that's all his (never-ending) ads mention. Started with the primary, where he was running against an actress and didn't need to spend a lot of money. However, on TV and radio the commercials were constant and all that was mentioned was Trump, Trump, Trump and nothing actually about New York. And no doubt it will pick up again soon when they start ramping up the ads for the general election. He clearly has no interest in being governor anymore, so he's simply setting up for his POTUS bid. It's been amusing to watch the process as it just shows how screwed up these parties are - but particularly Dems. Initially, as gov, he wasn't completely terrible as he was fairly moderate. But now that he is only focused on getting the Dem nomination in 2020, he goes a mile further to left every day since that is what it will take. The most radical and extreme candidate will win the nomination. Then, they will immediately have to pivot and try to claim they are moderate in order to win the general election.

Local/state politics in the area is deserving of it's own thread haha (and I will start one right now). But in short, even though we have completely different political leanings, I'm no fan of Cuomo either. Opposing Trump won't fix the subways, NYCHA, the water situation in Hoosick Falls, the opioid crisis in Staten Island and Upstate NY, corruption, or low voter turnout.
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#17
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View Postthundersleet, on 08 October 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

Some of the things you say here are true (being the party of Resist, and Democrats opposing whoever Trump nominated, for example). Both of which I found problematic.

In terms of Dr. Ford's accusations, they wouldn't have reached a criminal court. But that's not because of evidence...it's because of the Statute of Limitations.

You are incorrect though about believing Kavanaugh over Ford. More Americans overall believe Ford than Kavanaugh: https://thehill.com/...asey-ford-than. But regardless of polling, I'm more interested in finding the truth than what polls say.

You are also incorrect about Ford having "nothing." She had something, and actually, her story (including not remembering every detail/trying to forget certain details) is in some ways eerily similar to my mom's own sexual assault.
It's become painfully obvious to me that far too many women from back in the day have a story to tell. And some in the present day too. Your Mom, and yes, my Mom too. She's mentioned things recently about stuff that happened back in the 60s and 70s. Some men are awful. That's knowably true. And of course I believe my Mom.

But, each situation is different, and I think sex assault cases should be taken one at a time, very carefully and without cable news. I wasn't 100% convinced Ford was attacked by Kavanaugh. I know she's convinced she was attacked by someone, so I don't believe she is lying. (I'm basically taking a similar version of the Sue Collins position). I do, however, believe Avenatti's accuser was flat out lying or seriously embellishing her claims. And, don't even get me started on Michael Avenatti.

Which brings me to a couple of other points. I think there is a legitimate worry about false accusations, or over accusations by women with an ax to grind, or just wanting the attention, or who want to run for president. And they have plenty of media help with that. There is a conversation to be had, but the current version of it isn't working for men or women, and isn't going to help gender relations one bit. And, I'll mention something else. When I was way younger, friends and I would make jokes about being gay, and would sometimes result in getting a couple of fake gropes. So does that make me a survivor? Because by most progressive narratives, I can claim that label. So where's my cable news tour?

Get where I'm going with this? Not only is it absurd, it's also offensive to my Mom and yours, a point my mother has made. Which is why I thought the whole Al Franken thing was ridiculous, and I'm far from alone. A fake boobie grab photo and look what it turned into. Oh, and small footnote on that, the biggest mouthpiece for outing Franken might be a presidential candidate. But I'm sure those two things are unrelated, aren't you?

Two things are simultaneously true. Some men are awful. And some women embellish, dramatize, and twist things for their own personal gain, a fact I'm also too familiar with working in a female dominated field. So I find it perfectly centered to believe some or even many women, and yet be highly skeptical of others. Which is why due process must win the debate and enough of the cable news, social media, kangaroo courts.
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#18
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View Postgpsnavigator, on 08 October 2018 - 07:58 PM, said:

It's become painfully obvious to me that far too many women from back in the day have a story to tell. And some in the present day too. Your Mom, and yes, my Mom too. She's mentioned things recently about stuff that happened back in the 60s and 70s. Some men are awful. That's knowably true. And of course I believe my Mom.

But, each situation is different, and I think sex assault cases should be taken one at a time, very carefully and without cable news. I wasn't 100% convinced Ford was attacked by Kavanaugh. I know she's convinced she was attacked by someone, so I don't believe she is lying. (I'm basically taking a similar version of the Sue Collins position). I do, however, believe Avenatti's accuser was flat out lying or seriously embellishing her claims. And, don't even get me started on Michael Avenatti.

Which brings me to a couple of other points. I think there is a legitimate worry about false accusations, or over accusations by women with an ax to grind, or just wanting the attention, or who want to run for president. And they have plenty of media help with that. There is a conversation to be had, but the current version of it isn't working for men or women, and isn't going to help gender relations one bit. And, I'll mention something else. When I was way younger, friends and I would make jokes about being gay, and would sometimes result in getting a couple of fake gropes. So does that make me a survivor? Because by most progressive narratives, I can claim that label. So where's my cable news tour?

Get where I'm going with this? Not only is it absurd, it's also offensive to my Mom and yours, a point my mother has made. Which is why I thought the whole Al Franken thing was ridiculous, and I'm far from alone. A fake boobie grab photo and look what it turned into. Oh, and small footnote on that, the biggest mouthpiece for outing Franken might be a presidential candidate. But I'm sure those two things are unrelated, aren't you?

Two things are simultaneously true. Some men are awful. And some women embellish, dramatize, and twist things for their own personal gain, a fact I'm also too familiar with working in a female dominated field. So I find it perfectly centered to believe some or even many women, and yet be highly skeptical of others. Which is why due process must win the debate and enough of the cable news, social media, kangaroo courts.

Yep. Absolutely.

It is rare when a woman who takes her assault accusation through the legal process is found to be lying (usually in the 2-7% range). That being said, this is not a court, but instead a Senate confirmation.

I agree with you about due process. While my own personal experiences predispose me to believe the accuser more often than not (I don't know a single man who's been falsely accused, but I have lost count of the number of female friends who've been harassed or assaulted), due process is important. And enough of the politics.

Personally, I think that an FBI investigation should be automatically instituted when someone in federal office, or someone being considered for federal office (including a justice), is accused of sexual misconduct or assault. It's an idea that doesn't discriminate by party, and holds people accountable regardless of party. But I think Dems and Repubs are more interested in scoring political points than trying to figure out how to prevent such things from becoming a circus in the future.
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