23 replies to this topic

[robbbs]

This map appeared some time ago, but the files were lost by the person who created it for the US Forest Service. Fortunately, after contacting him, he was able to retrieve them and reproduce the map. It's the most detailed snowfall map for this region I've ever seen.

[cliffwood lake]

Cool map! I always wondered what my average was. I figured it was about 60". And thats what it is, 55'-60'.One year I remember we had around 115-120". Not sure if it was 93 or 96? Both years had alot, and both years we had storms with over 36" totals.

[Stormchaser]

This is consistent w/ what you were thinking all along Robbbs. About 55" annual for your area and 60-65" for High point. Amazing gradient between valleys and peaks in NW NJ; the DE river basin is around 35" average snowfall. 35" seems a bit low for the NJ/PA border but judging by the detailed effort on that map, it's probably correct. If so thats only 6-7" more than I average in central NJ.

[rgwp96]

Stormchaser, on Dec 29 2009, 05:49 PM, said:

This is consistent w/ what you were thinking all along Robbbs. About 55" annual for your area and 60-65" for High point. Amazing gradient between valleys and peaks in NW NJ; the DE river basin is around 35" average snowfall. 35" seems a bit low for the NJ/PA border but judging by the detailed effort on that map, it's probably correct. If so thats only 6-7" more than I average in central NJ.

Storm I doubt the deleware numbers to, even though they are only 250-300 ft of elevation the map has areas in passaic cnty at the same elevations in the 40+ area

[Stormchaser]

rgwp96, on Dec 29 2009, 05:54 PM, said:

Storm I doubt the deleware numbers to, even though they are only 250-300 ft of elevation the map has areas in passaic cnty at the same elevations in the 40+ area

Yeah, I'd doubt anything lower than 40" in NW NJ, although I guess there may be some 38s/39s in the deepest valleys so they had to include a 35-40 range.

[robbbs]

Stormchaser, on Dec 29 2009, 10:49 PM, said:

This is consistent w/ what you were thinking all along Robbbs. About 55" annual for your area and 60-65" for High point. Amazing gradient between valleys and peaks in NW NJ; the DE river basin is around 35" average snowfall. 35" seems a bit low for the NJ/PA border but judging by the detailed effort on that map, it's probably correct. If so thats only 6-7" more than I average in central NJ.

Storm -- I'm in the small area of 50 to 55 just to the south of Greenwood Lake. As for large gradients, even within a short distance here in West Milford, the averages on the map go from 40-45 to 55-60. Of course, that's presuming all this is correct, but it looks reasonable. I believe the author extrapolated much based on topography. For the NJ section, he took available data plus consulted with Dave Robinson (NJ State Climatalogist) and Stefano. BTW, as for numbers in the 30's in northwest NJ, I believe Sussex Airport averages just under 40" and Port Jervis NY, just on the other side of the border in the extreme northwest, may also average close to that. As you know, both spots are situated in valleys.

[GameOfLove]

Would love to see a larger map of NW NJ, the Hudson Valley, NYC and Long Island covered too.

[weathergeek87]

rgwp96, on Dec 29 2009, 11:54 PM, said:

Storm I doubt the deleware numbers to, even though they are only 250-300 ft of elevation the map has areas in passaic cnty at the same elevations in the 40+ area

Remember, when it comes to coastal storms, that Kittatinny Range can produce a shadowing effect on the Delaware River Valley up to Port Jervis...leaving them with a lot less snow than areas like Wantage...but then again there are lots of times where storms come in from the west so I have to believe those valley numbers are a little on the low side.

[robbbs]

GameOfLove, on Dec 30 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

Would love to see a larger map of NW NJ, the Hudson Valley, NYC and Long Island covered too.

The map was made as part of a series which follows the Appalachian Trail. Therefore, part of the Hudson Valley is covered to the same degree of detail on another map.

[snowshoe]

I rememeber those maps when they came out. They were mainly used for the Appalachain trail corridor to show the average snow. Thats why it only covers the Kittainny ridge and Valley area as well as parts of the Highlands of North jersey and southern NY. There is another 2 maps that go with this. One shows from the Delaware Water Gap, Rt 80 to the one posted. I had made copies of these maps a few years back but cant find them now.
They are very accurate with the exception of the River Valleys. They are no doubt low. I have the Catskill Weather book and it shows Port Jervis with an average of 47 inches. I think they would be in the 40-45 range. I drive in all these areas and their very rarley is that big a difference except during those High Elevation storms. My area is on the 50-55 line. Sounds about right considering im usually on that rain snow line during elevation storms.

[satellite_eyes]

I agree the Port Jervis area should be north of 40". I have no way to prove it except that i've spent a lot of time there and have trouble believing they don't average more than say Newton. Great map though. No map is going to be 100% accurate but that one is about as detailed as you'll ever find.

[roughsurf]

Too bad you can't find the one just south of this one that shows the rest of NW NJ and Eastern PA. Reason being, I can't see my area on here, jsut outside of it in the SW corner. Would think in the 40-45" range where I'm at specifically. As for the township I'm in, I'm sure the average is much lower because it covers a lot of different terrain. Satellite probably has the same issue as I do here. Once you get down into Central/South Jersey, I'm sure the averages are more uniform by townships/counties.

Mark

[bm55]

I think it is a fairly accurate map. I especially like that little red circle that puts me in the 50-55 range. I always figured my average to be around 50", but never saw a map to verify it. As for the Port Jevis average, it does seem a bit low, being it is a little higher in elevation than me, but as satellite stated, no map will be 100% accurate, but shows some great detail.

[weathergeek87]

This map is proof as to why Mountain Creek is such a fantastic resort. Averaging 50-55" of snow and being located less than 1 hr from the George Washington Bridge. The summit of Wawayanda Mountain (Mountain Creeks next door neighbor) averages close to the amount of snow that High Point gets, but it's a much easier drive to Mountain Creek than to High Point. Awesome map. I would love to see a map with that much detail all the way to NYC.
Also, it's too bad a ski resort was never developed on the northern or western slopes of High Point, that would be a fantastic spot for a resort...guess there's issues with that due to the fact that HP is within State Park limits.

[robbbs]

weathergeek87, on Dec 30 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

This map is proof as to why Mountain Creek is such a fantastic resort. Averaging 50-55" of snow and being located less than 1 hr from the George Washington Bridge. The summit of Wawayanda Mountain (Mountain Creeks next door neighbor) averages close to the amount of snow that High Point gets, but it's a much easier drive to Mountain Creek than to High Point. Awesome map. I would love to see a map with that much detail all the way to NYC.
Also, it's too bad a ski resort was never developed on the northern or western slopes of High Point, that would be a fantastic spot for a resort...guess there's issues with that due to the fact that HP is within State Park limits.

Actually, the map shows them to average 55"-60".

[NittanyLion]

robbbs, on Dec 30 2009, 07:16 PM, said:

Actually, the map shows them to average 55"-60".

And their site says they average 65", but then again thats a ski resort saying that.

[snowshoe]

NittanyLion, on Dec 30 2009, 07:19 PM, said:

And their site says they average 65", but then again thats a ski resort saying that.

No way they average that. The Highest Point on the resort is north peak at a little over 1400ft. The Highest point in all the NJ Highlands (eastern Sussex County, Passaic, Bergen, Morris, easten warren and Hunterdon county) is 1480 and thats is Bearfort Mt by Robbbs. There is nothing 1500ft or higher in these areas. Here is a good list of all the county High Points for those intrested. http://www.peakbagge....aspx?lid=13320

geek - there was a proposal for a ski resort by Walpack on the West slopes of the KKittatinnies. That would have been a great spot because the Highest point their is 1606ft on Mt Paradise. Im not sure what ever happened probably had something to do with NPS taking it over. There was actually a single ski hill at High Point in the early 1900's as well as a ski jump. Tow rope style. There was also a second ski slope on the northwest side of high point. Im still trying to find the location, the old tow rope is still their. I have been looking for ir for a few years with no luck. They say its there somewhere.

[NittanyLion]

For NE NJ, NYC, and LI, Upton does have a map of average snowfall (however not as detailed):

[Putnam]

NittanyLion, on Dec 31 2009, 04:31 AM, said:

For NE NJ, NYC, and LI, Upton does have a map of average snowfall (however not as detailed):

Funny I was looking for this and finally found it. Interesting how there is a little bubble that travels up the Hudson and into west point and cold spring that reduces the totals a bit there. wonder what that is from since due east there is more snow.

[bm55]

Putnam, on Dec 31 2009, 10:46 AM, said:

Funny I was looking for this and finally found it. Interesting how there is a little bubble that travels up the Hudson and into west point and cold spring that reduces the totals a bit there. wonder what that is from since due east there is more snow.

Map is a bit underdone.