Jump to content

Interesting trends WRT climate


52 replies to this topic

#1
Stormchaser

  • Members
  • 7,578 posts
Those of you who have been following recent discussions/updates concerning global climate probably know what I'm about to present.

Let me say this - I try to remain unbiased in the matter, basing my assertions off science, not politics - which this situation seems to have become nationwide. Bottom line is if one does the research - one will find that there is much, much more to this debate than the media portrays. And by that I mean the following: at the very least, there's sound meteorological evidence to doubt the IPCC's "forecast" for doom and gloom down the road.

Just a brief background on climate:

1) Little Ice age occurred in the mid 1600s-1700s - most probable answer is due to very low solar activity. If one looks back at the sunspot cyles, you'lll note that flares/radiation was essentially nil throughout that period.

2) Earth emerged from the LIA in the 1800s. Global temperatures began rising well before the onset of the industrial evolution in the early 1900s.

3) C02 concentrations and temperatures have risen/fallen significantly in the past - long before humans existed. In fact there's a 400 year lag; temperatures increase first, then C02 about 400 yrs later -- completely opposite of what mainstream anthropogenic warmingista's assert.

4) In the 1940s-70s, global temps cooled slightly, even with an increasing CO2 level. Best explanation for this is natural oceanic cycles -- the PDO (pacific decadel oscillation) was in a cold phase in this time. Will illustrate later with map.

5) The 1980s-90s featured drastic warming - which media suggests is due mostly or wholly to CO2. However, (now here's the new part), since 1998, temps have leveled off, and fallen since 2000 -- the most significant temp drop-off in over a decade happened just this past year -- 2007 to 2008.

How could this be if CO2 is responsible for global warming?

Notice on the graph below -- the light blue line indicative of CO2 concentrations continuing upward. But the pink line is global temps -- steadily downward the past few years. Apparent disconnect between the two.

Posted Image


In the past - CO2 levels would rise after temps - why? - because once the interglacial period begins, all that ice slowly melts, allowing CO2 from the carbon sinks in oceans and over land to diffuse back into the atmospere.

You may ask - now that we're adding CO2 with our industrial activity, how would that effect temps? Well - note the graph below, C02 is far from the main atmospheric gas. In fact it accounts for less than 0.1%:

Posted Image


This next graph depicts CO2 and it's relation with other dominant gases in our atmosphere. Note that water vapor accounts for more than 95% in terms of contribution to the greenhouse effect, while CO2 is less than 1%, and the anthropogenic part of that is even lower, around 0.117%! It's the water vapor that does the warming, not the CO2 IMO.


Posted Image


You be the judge here -- examine the following two graphs.

First one is temperatures VS. CO2 over the past decade. Remember CO2 is the green line going upward.

Posted Image


Now here's temperatures VS. solar activity since 1550:


Posted Image


Which one has a stronger correlation to temp (CO2 or solar)?

It's funny as I've read some articles claiming that "the sun accounts for less than 30% of climate change, and is a small factor in the overall picture."

Really? So you're telling me if we turn off the sun tonight - none of us will know, becuase we're in this hot greenhouse due to the anthropogenic/industrial activity.


Back to the cool period from the 1940s-70s. Below is a graph of the Pacific decadal oscillation. Note it's cold phase in exactly that period. Makes sense to me, as it does thousands of others.

Posted Image


One last comments regarding current climate. I've already shown the graph of temps decreasing rapidly over the couple past year.

We also have something interesting going on w/ the Sun. The present sunspot cycle has been virtually inactive over the past year-15 months -- the weakest it's been for this duration for several decades. We're in cycle 23 right now - note the graph below. Our current sunspot cycle -- depicted by the purple line -- is lower than the past 4 cycles:

Posted Image


As mentioned earlier in the post -- low sunspots cycles have correlated to colder periods in Earth's history. I'm not saying we're headed for an ice age, but I do believe global temps will continue to cool due to the following factors:

1) PDO cold cycle re-emerging (last cold cycle was 40s-70s).
2) Possible weakening solar constant as shown above -- big key -- if the next sunspot cycle is even lower than the current one, it's essentially a lock that global temps will be on the downward slope.
3) Third factor - not as important as the others, but we are beginning to enter the negative cyclic phase of the NAO-AO (as seen from the late 40s-late 70s).


What I'm saying is this -- there is more than reasonable doubt concerning the human-induced global warming theory, which the media continues to push. Please don't get me wrong w/ this post - I'm all for renewable energy sources and green ideas; however, I believe the politics are unfortunately taking the forefront in this debate, which is a shame.

Anyway -- at the very least, global temps look to be leveling off/slowly decreasing from the past couple decades. We've already seen the Earth "turn the corner" with the cooling since 2000-2002, and particularly over the past year. The doomsday warming is based upon climate forecast models which 1) Only know as much as we put into them, 2) Cannot grasp the intricate interactions and processes that transpire in our atmosphere. 3) Co2 is less than 0.1% of the atmosphere, far too miniscule to have a significant impact on global climate. Main drivers here IMO are solar and natural-terrestrial cycles. Water vapor is the primary heat-holding gas - well accepted in the meteorological community.

*Just as an FYI - but even if Al Gore was correct for some strange reason - our climate system has numerous ways to counteract any human induced warming.

1) Increase in temps leads to more water vapor, thus more clouds, thus a negative feedback cycle begins -- cooling the earth due to cloudcover/precipitation.

2) Gulf stream - if the entire northern ice cap melts as predicted by some, the thermohaline circulation of the Atlantic would shut-down, causing the northern hemisphere to cool drastically, thereby plunging us into another ice age.

#2
Jimrin1967

  • Meteorologists
  • 2,296 posts
  • Location:Port Matilda, PA
Outstandind post, Storm. Its so evident if you look at long-term climate changes that warm periods have occurred many times...and that we are right now in a period that SHOULD be warm. Not to say cutting our CO2 emmisions and lowering ise of fossil fuels would be a bad thing. But I think it has virtually nothing to do with how warm or cool the planet is.
--Jim

www.facebook.com/jimrin1967

#3
robbbs

  • Members
  • 11,128 posts
Storm -- Nice write-up. Man made global warming is a political issue now and, therefore, science and logic take a back seat to sensationalism, hype, and media frenzy. Amazing how many people fall for it.
West Milford NJ

#4
weatherbowl

  • Members
  • 5,499 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern Nassau County
  • Levittown
  • NY
Nice write up. No doubt in my mind that Global Warming being caused by CO2 is more political than factual. By the way did all the ice melt at the Arctic this summer, wasn't that predicted earlier in the year?
Eastern Nassau County, Long Island

#5
rgwp96

  • Members
  • 6,393 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:butler NJ
great post and you should go post this in easterns climate change forum. Its a huge global warming crowd over there.
Butler, New Jersey
 



 Posted Image


Posted Image


Visit My weatherstation

#6
NYBrit

  • Members
  • 3,372 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staten Island
  • Staten_Island
  • NY

View Postrgwp96, on Aug 4 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

great post and you should go post this in easterns climate change forum. Its a huge global warming crowd over there.

LOL they'd go into melt dowN! It's always fun reading their posts. What a bunch of egos!
Location:  Staten Island, NYC

#7
Jimrin1967

  • Meteorologists
  • 2,296 posts
  • Location:Port Matilda, PA

View PostNYBrit, on Aug 4 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

LOL they'd go into melt dowN! It's always fun reading their posts. What a bunch of egos!


Thank you, Brit!!! I find Eastern to be so pompous I can't stand it.
--Jim

www.facebook.com/jimrin1967

#8
icehater

  • Members
  • 16,099 posts
  • Location:Northern Monmouth county

View Postrgwp96, on Aug 4 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

great post and you should go post this in easterns climate change forum. Its a huge global warming crowd over there.

Better yet - send it to Al Gore. Great research Storm.
Monmouth county NJ

#9
robbbs

  • Members
  • 11,128 posts

View PostJimrin1967, on Aug 4 2008, 03:19 PM, said:

Thank you, Brit!!! I find Eastern to be so pompous I can't stand it.

Jim -- I know one of the NWS mets at Taunton personally and while he has posted very rarely at Eastern, he tries to stay away from it and some of the mets there like the plague.
West Milford NJ

#10
lab94

  • Members
  • 10,877 posts
  • Location:Oak Ridge NJ
  • Oak_Ridge
  • NJ
Great writeup!! As usual this shows you now your stuff. I think you should e-mail to one of the newspapers and tell them to run a new story on global warming (or lack of it)

Btw. If Gore takes credit for the internet, does Bush get credit for the globale cool down and stopping global warming? LOL
Visit My Weather Station

station info on Weather Underground

Lab's Radar


Elevation 784'

11-12 SNOWFALL TO DATE 20.5"
09-10 Snowfall- 73.60" .....10-11 snowfall - 61.5"
07-08 snow total 39.45".. ...08-09 snowfall- 42.71"

#11
Kelli013

  • Members
  • 850 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • N_Middletown
  • NJ
Thanks Storm, that was very informative. :biggrin:
N. Middletown, Monmouth County

#12
Stormchaser

  • Members
  • 7,578 posts

View PostJimrin1967, on Aug 4 2008, 01:09 AM, said:

Outstandind post, Storm. Its so evident if you look at long-term climate changes that warm periods have occurred many times...and that we are right now in a period that SHOULD be warm. Not to say cutting our CO2 emmisions and lowering ise of fossil fuels would be a bad thing. But I think it has virtually nothing to do with how warm or cool the planet is.


Jim,

Thanks and I agree 100%. As I said in the post I think continued research for renewable energy sources is necessary -- and CO2 levels should be lowered for other reasons, primarily related to our health. Asthma rates have skyrocketed over the past few decades due to poor air quality around cities, not to mention many other health issues. A cleaner environment is important and would benefit us all.

The main point of my post was to refute the sensational hype regarding our "immeninent doom" if we don't change the ways of our life. There is more than enough sound evidence that argues against this.


View Postrobbbs, on Aug 4 2008, 07:25 AM, said:

Storm -- Nice write-up. Man made global warming is a political issue now and, therefore, science and logic take a back seat to sensationalism, hype, and media frenzy. Amazing how many people fall for it.


Thanks Robbbs - I'm also amazed at the number of people falling for it. You know what really gets me - when folks say "Ah, too bad winters will never be what they used to, back in my day in age."

View Postweatherbowl, on Aug 4 2008, 07:28 AM, said:

Nice write up. No doubt in my mind that Global Warming being caused by CO2 is more political than factual. By the way did all the ice melt at the Arctic this summer, wasn't that predicted earlier in the year?

Weatherbowl - interesting you bring that up - will post a graph in a moment.


View Postrgwp96, on Aug 4 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

great post and you should go post this in easterns climate change forum. Its a huge global warming crowd over there.

Thanks RG, probably will post it there too. I check the climate forum and it does get pretty nasty. But believe it or not there are only 2-3 real big human-induced global warming crazies over there - of course they post in every thread.

View Posticehater, on Aug 4 2008, 10:32 AM, said:

Better yet - send it to Al Gore. Great research Storm.

Thanks Ice! From what I've heard Al Gore turned down his latest invitation to debate climate change with another prominent scientist. Wonder why. Nothing against the guy - I think cleaning up the environment is good. I admire him for that. But IMO the hype is getting to be a bit much.

View Postlab94, on Aug 4 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

Great writeup!! As usual this shows you now your stuff. I think you should e-mail to one of the newspapers and tell them to run a new story on global warming (or lack of it)

Btw. If Gore takes credit for the internet, does Bush get credit for the globale cool down and stopping global warming? LOL


Thanks Lab and Kelli!

#13
Stormchaser

  • Members
  • 7,578 posts
Weatherbowl,

The left image is the northern ice cap a year ago -- summer 2007. The right image is the current appearance of the north pole. One can see we're clearly much more glaciated this year. Looking at the records, we're now in line with 2004/2005 ice wise - so beginning the down turn.


Posted Image

#14
bzimmer

  • Members
  • 61 posts
Storm, and Ice...

Do you still have a "good" feeling about the upcoming winter?

#15
Stormchaser

  • Members
  • 7,578 posts

View Postbzimmer, on Aug 4 2008, 12:38 PM, said:

Storm, and Ice...

Do you still have a "good" feeling about the upcoming winter?


Bzimmer,

Let me put it this way - I have a "better" feeling than I did about the past couple winters (which isn't saying much).

But we still have some issues to monitor over the next few months that could swing in a favorable or unfavorable direction. Namely the north pacific signal, ENSO, and Atlantic SST's.

Right now I'm still in summer mode so I probably won't be looking into winter until after Labor Day.

#16
bzimmer

  • Members
  • 61 posts
Thanks Storm,

Enjoy the rest of the summer [ which I love ].....and I'll talk to you after Labor Day about the upcoming winter [ which I also love ]

#17
wntrstrmwrng

  • Members
  • 565 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Monroe, NJ
  • Monroe
  • NJ
Storm--

I know you are probably tired of reading it already but AWESOME POST!!! I really enjoyed it!
Monroe, NJ (Middlesex County)

#18
jfar57

  • Members
  • 2,285 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Randolph NJ
  • Randolph
  • Nj
Very interesting stuff Storm. Thanks!
Randolph NJ

#19
snowshoe

  • Members
  • 2,364 posts
  • Location:Wantage (Libertyville) NJ (Northwest Sussex County)
  • Wantage
  • NJ
excellent post storm. I agree with you 100%, no one can argue with your post. You did a great job at backing up your points. Keep up the great posts
Location: Wantage NJ (Libertyville section) (Northwest Sussex County)
Total snow for 2011-2012 season: 24 inches
Total snow for 2010-2011 season: 50.8 inches
Total snow for 2009-2010 season: 69.5 inches
Total snow for 2008-2009 season: 42.6 inches
Total snow for 2007-2008 season: 52.3 inches
Average 60 Inches

#20
robbbs

  • Members
  • 11,128 posts

View PostStormchaser, on Aug 4 2008, 06:10 PM, said:

Bzimmer,

Let me put it this way - I have a "better" feeling than I did about the past couple winters (which isn't saying much).

But we still have some issues to monitor over the next few months that could swing in a favorable or unfavorable direction. Namely the north pacific signal, ENSO, and Atlantic SST's.

Right now I'm still in summer mode so I probably won't be looking into winter until after Labor Day.

Sorry to say, and let this be the first time I mention it, that I see signals that point to another lackluster winter coming up. I don't feel good about it at all.
West Milford NJ





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users