This is downright sickening. To treat the folks that declared war on the US the same way you treat a speeding ticket is the dumbest thing Obama could ever do. This is a national military case. Did we try the Nazi's locally? Would we have brought Hirohito to Pearl Harbor or Hitller to DC for an everyday criminal trial? These folks are committed to destroy America (how many times have you heard them say they seek the destruction of the US) and this threat is as real as the sun coming up tomorrow and Obama treats it like it's just another crime. Worse still is that it has to occur right where the crime happened, causing further damage and stress to the victims families. Literrally the trial will be a few blocks away from where the planes hit and Holder seems be proud of this and incredibly he seems to think this is symbolic.

Can you imagine if this guy and group walks like OJ on technicalities? What if some American attacks them in transit or attacks their attorneys? How about the absurd security costs to hold a trial here. Then of course you may even get Letterman or Leno jokes about it. This is going to be an absolute circus in which we have nothing to gain and everything to lose and be embarrassed about. Plus the prosecution will have to name anything or anyone connected with the defendants which means that terrorists who have no clue of how much we are onto them will now know exactly what we have on them and how we are looking for them. Yes all that is part of evidence and gets publicly, which now means globally, disclosed. It's like telling the enemy in WWII what our attack plans are because this is now a crime rather than a military war as a result of this decision.

For Obama to not hand this off to a military tribunal shows me that this is a man is is in a lot further over his head than I realized. So now we will have an NYC that is further endangered by terrorists who may try to free these people or attack the court and claim the defendents as martyrs, plus those same terrorists will have a massive stage to use to their benefit. On top of that you will have evidence issues up the kazoo to deal with even though the guy has already admitted he's the mastermind. Remember he didn't do the killing, he just planned it.

Simply sickening and almost impossible to believe that Obama and Holder are doing this. Wasn't 9/11 enough or do these guys not understand what happened that day, even now.

Gotta love this quote from Obama:

“I'm absolutely convinced that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed will be subject to the most exacting demands of justice,” Mr. Obama said. “The American people insist on it, and my administration insists on it.”

The man is delirious if he believes that we want to see a ridiculous trial occur at all in the US, let alone occur in NYC, treating the guy as if he robbed a supermarket. It's incredible but these guys really think that 9/11 was nothing but an ordinary crime. And what next - do we get trials in DC and Pennsylvania for the planes that crashed there?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/us/14terror.html

On a daily basis, Obama displays more and more incompetence. He just put everyone who lives in the NYC area in danger. Un-efffin-believable.

This sums it up best:

I've been watching him a lot closer the last few weeks. He looks lost and overwhelmed now. He's made a big mistake from walking away from calling the war on terror what it really is. Clearly the extremists view this as a war on America and will kill any American they can without thought or remorse and if it's up to them they would kill in the most gruesome way possible. No one wants to mention it or think of it but there were many people vaporized by the heat on 9/11 and we are traeting that as an ordinary crime. The whole CIA issue revolves around him and Holder thinking of these extremists with a perverse view of religion, as criminals instead of the dangerous barbarians they are and I really believe Holder is leading him astray here. Re Afghanistan, I thought he was just putting his decision off until after the election but it's clear to me now that he's lost and indecisive on what to do. Hillary did him no favors on her middle east trip and basically undid everything he accomplished in his speech in Egypt. Abbas no longer sees the US as a leader in any Palestinian issues and is stepping down. Basically our foreign policy is falling apart. But this decision to try this case as a civil case in NYC is a travesty and is unconscionable. Technically, if 9/11 didn't cross state borders it would be up to the state of NY to prosecute based on what Obama and Holder are saying and doing. The only reason this is now a federal case is because it also affected Pa and DC. The fact that it was an attack on America, and was once planned as a bigger attack to include LA and SF is lost on Obama. By walking away from treating this as a military case and by discounting the war on terror as a policy Obama is effectively saying Osama bin Laden should'nt even be hunted as a war monger. Plus by treating this as a civil case and protecting these barbarians with the US judicial system, I'm not even sure you can legally hold them. They were arrested by the US military on foreign lands with help from foreign government military. They were never read their rights. Miranda law says such an arrest has to be thrown out. What a joke this is and just wait to the bomb and terrorist threats start coming in downtown and the traffic issues all this mayhem is going to cause.

BTW - wait to the defense makes this more like a rape trial. Instead of Al Quaeda being tried here the defense will make the CIA tactics be on trial just like an attorney in a rape case puts the victim on trial. This is going to be worse than any of us can imagine.

we were warned

Can you imagine having to be a juror in this case. Bad enough that it will last forever but you'll have to worry about local radicals coming after you when it's over. I really don't think Obama and Holder have a clue about the can of worms they opened today. Total incompetence. I have no doubt that Obama is a one-term President so I just hope this thing gets delayed until we get a President and an attoprney general that know what they are doing. Chances are that this gets moved out of NYC, as this article implies, but what city or town in America is going to want this circus?? I suggest they send it up to Barrow - in winter - and put the defendants in an unheated building. And yes - I couldn't possibly agree more with the last line of the story and this comes off an MSNBC site and we have a leader who gave Mohammed the media capital of the world for his show.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33919478/ns/us_news-security/

Another great point Ice. Look at the Gotti Jr trial again. 3 hung juries in a row. They know the police can't help them if they convict him.

in all honesty...chicago. obama has crossed the line with this on....final straw. i think he really is on the side of his rev. wrights teachings. why in hell is he doing this?? besides the "open wound" scenario, the cost and security issues is nutty. he's gotta go, lets hope its a 1 term pres.

had to add for the comments. a new term....obamatard.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/o...comments-3.html

I would have preferred that this trial take place at Guantanamo, as we maybe opening a can of worms here and inviting more trouble in New York.

The cost of trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his co-conspirators means extra security will be paid for by the local community, which is already strapped in these difficult times! Why invite more terrorism or the possibility of someone trying to do something to this man when in Guantanamo he is much safer for his trial.

To see Holder stand up and say "I'm confident we can win the case" on TV yesterday was just plain sickening. It's not an issue of whether this guy did it. He admitted to the world he did it on Al Jazeera long before we captured him. The issue now is that he can walk on technicalities, he gets legal and judicial system protections offered to you and me and he has his stage to condemn the US with, offered with open arms by the President and Attorney General of the US. Meanwhile Obama (who looks gaunt and awful, like a man who aged 10 years in the past year) made sure he was overseas when this was announced.

Here's the bottom line. The most important Al Quaeda operatives are now in the same judicial system that tried OJ Simpson, except that the evidence is even more circumstantial, and we all know how that one played out. You now have this case and you'll have to deal with an appeal process ito follow it. And it's not Al Quaeda that will be on trial, it will be the CIA and the Bush administration and maybe that's why Obama wants this to happen. The man remains obsessed with Bush, while his attorney General is obsessed with the CIA.

Finally how do you even find a jury. So many people know families or victims of the attack. I personally know more than 25 people that were affected by it, plus 5 families who lost loved ones in my town. My neighbor was in the middle of it in the Deutsche bank buiding. So how do you find people who can even be open minded in a case with this level of publicity. It scares me to think of the type of people the defense will allow to be on the jury panel.

God dam you are good Ice. I told my wife, I wonder if he will now be able to call anyone he wants to be a witness??? AKA call bush to the stands? Not sure how that works. Or any other CIA,FBI etc. This is a world wide stage for him to make us (USA ) look like idoits to his followers. It doent take a rocket scientest to see thru this sh!t!!

It's worse than that Lab. All our tracking techniques, classified info and vital things we know about Al Quaeda leadership can now be made public based on Mohammed's desire. In fact we may have to drop a number of his crimes from the case in order to protect that info. And make no mistake, this is a very brilliant man, just turned the wrong way. He has the level of intelligence that could have benefitted civilization and the Arab world if he was a just man. He's also a very calculating man. You know the original plan he devised for 9/11 was not just NYC and DC. It was also the west coast (LA and SF) and if I believe what I read overseas it was also London with planes crashing into Parliament. Osama bin Laden cut it back as too large scale and impossible to carry out simultaneously, mainly because of the timezone issues. But this was originally devised as a three pronged attack, east coast, west coast and UK. And here we have Holder and Obama treating it as an ordinary NYC civil crime. Simply amazing to think we have leaders who are acting like this.

This is just fooking crazy. Why don't we just give him his own TV station for his broadcasts and put all our FBI and CIA info on the web for them.

Trial in NYC is what he wanted since the day he was captured and Obama and Holder turned out to be his genies. All of the bold is from todays NY Times front page story.

Not long after he was rousted from bed and seized in a predawn raid in Pakistan in March 2003, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed gave his captors two demands: He wanted a lawyer, and he wanted to be taken to New York.

Unlike what Obama and Holder are thinking was a crime, Mohammed makes it very clear it was a war on the US and he says he actually feels some remorse for the victims. He wasn't committing a crime, he was committing an act of war and civilian deaths were the collateral damage. Right from the horses mouth we are told this should have been a military case:

“"Because war, for sure, there will be victims", he said through a translator, explaining that he had some remorse for the children killed on Sept. 11, 2001. “"I said I'm not happy that 3,000 people been killed in America. I feel sorry even. I don't like to kill children and the kids".”

But he added: “"This is why the language of any war in the world is killing. I mean the language of the war is victims".”

And finally he and Quaeda simply expcted a token response like the one Clinton gave after the Cole incident. They never expected a commanding attack like the one Bush unleashed:

Yet for all his professed wisdom about the United States, Mr. Mohammed later admitted that he had completely misjudged what the American response to the Sept. 11 attacks would be. He did not expect the American military campaign in Afghanistan, and he did not anticipate the relentless hunt for Al Qaeda leaders throughout South Asia and the Middle East.

Full link from NY Times story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/us/15ksm.html?_r=1&hp

just when you think it can't get worse than bush....this is sad

I just wish it would've stayed that and not been sidetracked and morphed into Iraq.

my problem with all the military "campaigns" is the forced used. either go full force or stay out, thats where the problem is. mogadishu should have taught us that.

I keep trying to keep an open mind with regard to this administration, but every time I look I see a radical agenda. I continue to hope I am wrong, but just seems we are headed into a direction I know I do not want and have a good feeling most Americans feel the same way. Here is hoping I am wrong and/or the American people are paying attention.

Agree. That was the Bush administrations real mistake. As bad as Saddam was he kept Iran at bay and he'd never have hooked up with bin Laden. The country that needed to worry about WMD was Iran, not us. It's obvious from Mohammed's quotes that the massive attack on Al Quaeda was never expected and that was the Bush admins great move. Iraq cancelled it out. You don't fight wars on two fronts by choice, only if you have to, and in this case we didn't have to. We all learned that in History class. Yet long-term if Iraq corrects, Iran settles down (and it's a culturally and street smart, well educated country in it's bigger population centers, whose population doesn't want what its administration does), and if we kill off Quaeda, the Bush strategy will be viewed very differently than it is now. But my feeling is that a major offensive against Quaeda and a dialogue with Iran, while pushing Israel to settle with the Palestinians would have accomplished such a success a lot cheaper, quicker and more effectively without the risks we now have. You take away the Palestinian issue and you do tremendous damage to bin Laden.

I agree wiith you. Approval ratings are dropping like crazy so America is getting disenchanted, especially independent voters. I want to give the administration a fair shot but after a year in office I can't point to anything that it got right and I see stupid controls and bad policy decisions everywhere I look. Obama's main focus internally now should be job creation but everything is pointing at higher and higher unemployment and severe deficits. The healthcare bill is the worst thing in the world for small business and will all but end any chance of small business expanding and hiring in the next few years and it is small business that hires 80% of America. If he had put in for tax cuts he'd have stimulated the economy a lot more and job creation would have returned a lot faster, and our deficit would be a lot smaller in the years to come. The problem with Government and taxes is they assume growth in an economy while taxes rise, kicking to higher and higher tax revenues and deficits going away. Never happens. Businesses and individuals compensate for the higher taxes so the math always fails. More folks are unemployed, tax revs go down and increased deficit spending is always the result.

One suggestion I'd have to Obama is kick in a sky high tax on Wall Street. Put in a 70% tax for incomes over $1mln. 80% over $2 mln and 90% over 3mln. That will kill off the bubbles in a hurry. I'd never do that to all people as it would kill progress. But Wall Street offers no progress or benefit to society. All it does is trade what others have worked so hard to build and often it does it in a rigged manner. Most, if not all, of Wall Street has become a cancer to society.

This trial raises so many questions. How do you find a jury? Who would want to defend these guys and do it here in NY? The Obama administration has said that water boarding and such methods are illegal, could this be used as a technicality to get these guys off? I can see a trial where the lawyers for these guys are showing how terrible the U.S. is and how these terrorists were mistreated. To top it off, the remaining family members of those that died will have to listen to all the garbage, that is cruel.

Today, Holder was grilled by Congress and looked like an idiot up there. One of the questions he got asked was if he can remember the last time an enemy combatant was caught on the battlefield was tried in a criminal court. He looked very surprised by the question (which in and of itself is a very scary thought) looked to one side, then upward and then mumbled about having to look it up. Before he could complete his sentence he was cut off with the words, "I'll save you the time, never! We are setting history on this one".

This is becoming a joke and I'm convinced that Holder and Obama are either dumb and clueless on this or they have an agenda here that they somehow think is righteous (plus puts Bush on trial as Obama is still obsessed with him) and don't see how this is going to end up frustrating the hell out of the American public and drag victims and families through hell. There is really no in between. They either have an agenda or are too foolish to see the consequences of this decision. Just wait until waterboarding is demonstrated to the world in an American court. Again it's not Mohammed that will be on trial here. After all he already said I'm guilty, kill me. It's the CIA and the Bush administration that will be on trial just like a rapist ends up putting the victim on trial.

I've seen a lot of things in my lifetime but never did I think I'd see one President putting on trial a past President (this is what this is going to turn out to be, so let's stop kidding ourselves otherwise) because that President unleashed the military and the CIA on the guy who brought this country to its knees with an act of war that killed as many people as Pearl Harbor. And if the guy had a nuclear bomb, he'd have put it in any or all of the hijacked planes. Amazingly that is lost on Obama and Holder.

This morning ABC news shows a building that was uncovered in Lithuania, that they say is where the CIA torchered the terrorist suspects. This is probably just a small example of what will be brought out in the trial, making the U.S. and the CIA look horrible. Meanwhile if another attack occurs and thousands more die, we will probably see stories on the news as to why it was not prevented.

like her or not...palin on hannity said last night...profile! that is what needs to be done(correctly of course). this imo, is where the ft. hood terrorist got through to do his crime.

That's just it, they're probably not concerned about another attack during or right after the trial because they can blame Bush for that too by saying the outrage over the things that came out in the trial that Bush and his administration did caused the attack.

And so it begins:

Mohammed, Ali and the others will explain "their assessment of American foreign policy," Fenstermaker said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/23/...in5745958.shtml

The lawyer for Ali, Scott Fenstermaker, told the Times on Sunday that his client will admit his role in the attacks and seek "martyrdom" through execution, but will plead not guilty as part of his and his co-defendants' political message

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/70...%20York%20Trial

Very predictable. They will not really put up a defense, they just want a stage to spew messages of hate and evil. And Ba-lockhead Obama is giving them everything they want.

Instead of executing them (and letting them become martyrs, as they want), put them in a box with just their head sticking out, and place it by Ground Zero. And as the masses pass them by every day on our way to/from work we can spit in their face.

i like

They said they're reason for trying them in Federal Court is the fastest, surest way to execute them. Don't know how it would be quicker than if the military did it.

Or put them in solitary and blast "I'm proud to be an American" in their cell 24/7 for the rest of their lives.

The fact that a story like this is even in discussion is sickening. You've got to love one of the comments in here. That being that if the terrorists are found not guilty Obama won't let them go because they will still be deemed a danger to Americans. Well HELLO! Isn't that why they shouldn't be brought and tried here? Doesn't that mean that our justice system is a fraud?? If you are guilty you can be served with the death penalty and if you are found not guilty we still hold you because we say the jury got it wrong. Isn't that what Obama accused Bush of doing - holding folks who were considered dangerous without cause? In fact isn't holding folks found not guilty even worse, particularly when you say you are doing this to show off the fairness of America's judicial system?? Yep our judicial system will really come across as a fair one to the world if we hold folks that are found not guilty. The fact that Holder and Obama have put us in this position is utterly amazing. Gotta love Holder's "failure is not an option" quote, yet he introduces the only way we can fail on us and then has the audacity to say this is what America wants. Look for Obama's approval rating to go lower and lower faster and faster. That's what happens when you make decisions like this. I'll tell you whenever I see Obama and Holder together and talking their reasons for this case all I think is dumb and dumber, or maybe it's naive and naiver. Either way the result is going to be awful.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/11/23/se...-11-mastermind/

Do you think this is just a dog-and-pony show to try and make Bush look like a jackass? Sadly, I think this administration is more worried about political vendettas and settling scores than doing what is best for the country.

After reading the quotes that I read about what happens if the terrorists are found not guilty, my answer to that is NO, at least not from Obama's standpoint. Maybe it is from Holder's standpoint though. I actually think it's a lot worse than what you asked. I think Holder has actually led Obama astray here, first with making legal issues more important than protecting this country (all that CIA stuff months ago was Holder) and secondly I think Holder actually thinks and believes this is a criminal case against America rather than an act of war. In the end Holder is a nerd (just a judicial one) and Obama is foolish for letting an Attorney General call the shots on what is a war act planned outside the borders of this country with the now considered criminals caught by the military outside the borders of this country. I think the more worrisome outcome of all this, aside from the monstrous circus act that we are about to see, is that we are treating Al Quaeda as a criminal gang when in fact neither any police or FBI force has the tools or wherewihall to deal with them. On the battlefield they are an enemy combatant and only the military has the resources to deal with that. NYC knew that on the day of the attack. Go back and watch fact based movies and docudramas about 9/11 or read the textbooks. All you hear from NYC officilas during the attacks of that day is "we need the military involved on this one". Eight years later Holder seems to have no clue what transpired on that day and a weak President has let him be the decision maker.

The fact that Holder is still allowing military tribunals on other terrorists but a criminal trial on this group seems odd and inconsistent to many. But if you think like a nerd it becomes very clear. An attack on the military is viewed by Holder as a military tribunal case. An attack on citizens is viewed as a criminal case. That's why the USS Cole terrorists (and the Fort Hood terrorist) will be a military trial. The fact that the same hierarchy in Quaeda was responsible for both the Cole and 9/11 attacks is lost on Holder. Again Obama should be the leader and decision maker here but right now he's letting Holder call the shots and that is going to end up dragging him way down.

And the idea that these guys are going to be held regardless of the verdict makes me scratch my head. In that case, what the hell is the point of going through all this nonsense? How are we showing the world that we're "fair" if we continue to hold someone who was acquitted (should it come to that)? Imagine if you were accused of a crime, found not guilty, only to be told by the judge that you were going to jail anyway. Are you serious? This is a joke.

really!! what are we some sort of past dictatorship??

Hopefully....this is the beginning of the administration coming to their senses



http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/05/911...dex.html?hpt=T1

Those final comments from the ACLU just shows them as another group blinded by fanaticism.

Democrats need to seriously distance themselves from the left-wing fringe that has little to no grasp on reality.

A ten year trial. Essentially a lockdown of lower Manhattan. A $200mln pricetag for NYC. If this happens then guess what - the terrorists just won. It's amazing that anyone in his right mind would still be contemplating this.

but Ice.....all that really important is that this war criminal's rights aren't violated... (heavy on the sarcasm). And they wonder why these people don't fear us. Even if he is found guilty after a trial that will go on for years...what is he going to get? the death sentence? That's an automatic appeal!!! The ACLU will charge in screaming that there is no way he could have gotten a fair trial in NY and request a mistrial and now he ends up sitting in a jail with 3 square for another 20 years while appeals go through..and we'll end up blowing $500mill for what? Something that a quick military tribunal and a fire squad (do they still do fire squads?) could finish off in 2 months. They'll be hitting us left and right because.....hell we can't even punch them in the stomach.

Best punishment for these guys is put them in a basement way below ground with no windows, give them minimal food and water that's dropped in from a ceiling 25 feet high and blast Born in the USA ,Proud to be an American, God Bless America, America the Beautiful and the Star Spangled Banner into their ears 24X7 for the rest of their lives. That's justice, not the stupidity Holder thinks justice is.

Pork and skunked beer....no heaven for you!!!

Full page add from the ACLU was placed in the NY Times to maintain this trial in civil court. Obama's indecisiveness on this, he's waffled back and forth now for 5 months, is just making this worse and worse. His inability to make a decision on something like this that is so obvious alarms me. His problem is he ran and got elected on terms that sounded great but had no chance on earth of being fulfilled and ads like this really call him out on what he ran on. The ACLU is clueless and acting like the ultimate nerd right now IMO. Again put lower Manhattan essentially in a lockdown for 5-10 years, bring back the transportation grief residents there experienced after 9/11 (essentially you're ruining their freedoms and rendering property there unsellable and unrentable and bankrupting businesses in that area), give these terrorists a platform to the world, endanger highly classified data and secrets about terrorism that people risked their lives to get and which would have to be revealed in a civil trial in effect handing bin Laden the keys to the vault, and add a 1-2bln cost to NYC and you might as well hand bin Laden a platinum medal for his 9/11 achievement. Even he's probably sitting there in amazement with a smile on his face. If the guys ever walked free on a technicality it would mean America's retaliation to 9/11 wasn't justified. It's amazing to me that anyone would even be contemplating this, and if they are they have no vision whatsoever about what our Governmenmt and NYC will be getting into. We have everything to lose and nothing to gain here.

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu...1-civilian-tria

These people in the ACLU realize that if Al Qaeda had the chance, they'd kill them and everyone they care about also, right? How some people can be so detached from reality is quite frightening.

BTW, Iran's President (if you can call him that) is at it again, claiming that 9/11 was nothing more than a concotion by the US government to wage war on Islam. Does Obama seriously think you can reason with a guy who believes these things? This is also a guy who said that homosexuals don't exist in Iran, the holocaust never happened and also wants to see Israel "wiped off the map".

I don't agree with him, but an interesting read from someone on the inside

Cnn.com

Well if you look at it the way he does then the Nazi's were criminals too They took over a country the same way that al Quaeda and the Taliban did. Bottom line is bin Laden's ambition is to spread hard-line radical Islam across the globe and to bring down the US by attacking it's citizens, and it's capital system. As mullah Omar said - we are embarking on the destruction of the United States. So that's not a criminal intent, it's a war intent and what they want to do is bring existing Muslims within homelands of other countries to their side so that they have an embedded battalion. How you can view that threat as criminal rather than an act of war (especially one that kills 3,000+ in an hour or two) is beyond my understanding. The greatest asset we can give bin Laden and radical Islam is the understatement of treating them as ordinary criminals.

The good old USA, release them so they can kill another 3,000. Why do we release them - an idle threat is more crucial to our judicial system then a guy who helps bring about 9/11.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589769,00.html

Ridiculous, sickening, etc.

Ok, release him from Gitmo...put him in a row boat in the middle of the Caribbean.

Maybe we should send that judge to the Taliban and let him find out the judicial rights they'll give him. Maybe then he'd realize what we are dealing with. There's an old joke about the Pope's ban on contraception and a sexy Italian woman says to him - "Hey - you no playa da game, you no maka the rules." Applies well to our judges and attorney general too.

Obama and Holder are naive enough to want want civil trials giving terrorists the same rights as US citizens which is still impossible for my logical mind to grasp. Well here we go. Already we have a US judge saying that preserving the constitution (for terrorists no less) is more important than the dangers the terrorists brings to us and the world. We better get used to this. Judges will uphold the law to the letter and let a bin laden go because logic is irrelevant next to the letter of the law. We better hope and pray we kill Obama and never catch him as long as this leadership team is in power.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/nyregion...ref=todayspaper