Spoke to my dad today, gas prices in NYC nearing $4/gal. OUT OF CONTROL!

$4.07 at my friends house near the Adirondacks.

When will they drop!!!!

Bush should be tapping into the oil reserves.. He probably doesn't care enough to do so though--he's on his way out anyway.

that wouldn't even put a dent in prices.

Maybe its time the United States started to drill its own oil. If we started 10 years ago we might not have these high prices now. Also wouldn't it be nice if we were not so dependant on the middle east and helping to support terrorism by buying their oil. Combine our own increased oil production with alternative energy sources and we might actually make some real progress.

Alternative energy is the only way that we can get away from these high gas prices. But that won't happen because the people in charge (on both sides of the aisle) are in bed with the oil execs. We have the technology, we are just choosing not to use it, or make it affordable.

when they decide to drill alaska, that's when. with todays technology they can do it clean and efficient. nope we have to pay the middle east.

itll only keep rising

I agree Nittany that alternative energy could be a big help and possibly the new order. I would not give up on going after our own oil also. We are a long way from an oil free world and there is plenty still out there. We can go after it as long as it is in a save environmental way. It would be very helpful to use it as we continue to search for cheap alternatives. I am afraid if we jump to conclusions about alternative energy, we could make big mistakes such as this potential food crisis and ethanol.

highest i saw around my town was 3.91 for regular but they are back down to 3.83 got gas today for 3.75 still 30dollars to fill the tank when it was on a quarter tank.

Everytime someone suggests that we start tapping our own reserves, the tree-hugging environmentalists go crazy. We can't have it both ways here...a choice has to be made and I don't think the answer lies in biofuels. Look at the spike in food prices since the ethanol craze began.

Biofuels are not the answer...

...but energy efficiency, solar power, and hyrdrogen power is

Also ANWR would only provide about 3-6 months of oil

There is also the people who support the high gas prices because they think it will change the way Americans do things. No more buying huge cars and SVUs - which get barely 15 miles to the gallon, make people walk more or use public transportation etc.

I read the government was thinking about stopped the federal gas and diesel tax - like this will ever happen. One person who thinks this is idiotic is "Mayor Mike Bloomberg, who has yet to endorse a candidate in the presidential race, said today that the proposal to suspend the gas tax, which is receiving attention on the campaign trail, is one of the most idiotic ideas he's heard in a while."

http://nysun.com/news/new-york/mayor-calls...k-dumbest-thing

As they say the richer get richer and the poorer get poorer.

30 years ago the same talk about oil and gas prices was taking place, except back then you had to wait in long lines to get gas. They were also predicting gas to be $5 a gallon within a few years. Guess what, gas remained cheap for the next 25 or more years. As a result nothing was done through 4 presidents and many congresses and the general public remained complacent. During that time big oil had years where they lost huge amounts of money, of course today they are filthy rich. As far as blame goes, I think there is enough to go around. The only way we will get serious about our energy prices is when it hurts everyones wallet. Maybe now something will get done. By the way, there may be more oil in North Dakota than ANWR and it is not in an environmentally sensitive area.

?????????????????that's if it would be used to supply 100% of us demand, even at that rate it would last at least a year +.


Technical projections and estimates

[edit] Estimates of oil reserves
A 1998 United States Geological Survey (USGS) study indicated at least 4.3 billion (95% probability) and possibly as much as 11.8 billion (5% probability) barrels (0.9 to 2.5 km³) of technically recoverable oil exists in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge 1002 area, with a mean value of 7.7 billion barrels (1.7 km³). In addition, in the entire assessment area, which covers not only land under Federal jurisdiction, but also Native lands and adjacent State waters within three miles (5 km), technically recoverable oil is estimated to be at least 5.7 billion (95%) and as much as 16.0 billion (5%) barrels (0.7 to 1.9 km³), with a mean value of 10.4 billion barrels (1.2 km³). Economically recoverable oil within the Federal lands assuming a market price of $40/barrel (constant 1996 dollars - the highest price included in the USGS study) is estimated to be between 3.4 billion (95%) and 10.4 billion (5%) barrels (0.5 to 1.7 km³), with a mean value of 6.8 billion barrels (1.1 km³).[3]

The 10.4-billion-barrel (1.65 km³) figure was used in publications by the U.S. Department of the Interior while it was headed by Gale Norton, a proponent of drilling in the Arctic Refuge.[11]

The U.S. consumes about 20 million barrels (3,200,000 m³) daily. If the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge oil reserves were used to supply 5% of the U.S. daily consumption -- most is imported from Canada (19%), Mexico (15%), Saudi Arabia (11.5%), Nigeria (10.5%) and Venezuela (10.5%)[12] -- the reserves, using the low figure of 4.3 billion barrels (680,000,000 m³), would last approximately 4300 days, or almost 12 years. Using the high estimate, the reserves would last approximately 11800 days, or 32 years.

If the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge was used to meet 100% of U.S. demand, it would last for 215 days under the low estimate, and 525 days or just 1.4 years if it contained 10.4 billion barrels (1,650,000,000 m³).

Years ago I remember hearing that when the barrel of oil was less than $20 It was cheaper to buy it than to produce it in the US. At what doller agount in the US does it break even now to get the oil? If its $25 or $30 lets start, it will bring down the price and make more jobs. How long has it been since we opened a new refinery? 20+ yrs.

good point lab...it's the not in my backyard mentality though.

That was my point, showing how much it would be to fully support the US shows how much oil there really is.

And yes while it may be a short term "solution", what about 12 years from now, when even using it for 5% of the consumption, it runs out?

From everything i've learned there is plenty of oil left in the world. The 2 huge factors are the limiting of the supply and the lack of new refineries as you guys mentioned. Something is going to have to give eventually.

Nit, thats the thing. If we start putting oil on the market, the price will drop. Then we can cut back on what we put out there. When prices go up again, we put it back out.

I also say any country that we send money to, should sell oil to us a discount rate. Why should we give them money,and they reap the benifits of the oil prices

don't forget 12 years from now will be totally differernt technology. problem is it will probably take 5-10 years if we were able to get that oil. any way you sclice it we don't need corn cars on the road, that's killing food prices.

Oh yeah i agree with that. Now because of this, farmers are no longer growing wheat as much anymore because of all of the profits they are making in corn.

If we do find another energy source will the politicians and oil companies let this happen? I find it ironic how politicians are telling people to be "green" yet they drive around with gas drinking cars.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/0...rsgraphFull.jpg

By most accounts from the so-called "experts, the price of oil has risen so dramatically because of speculators driving up the price. What I wonder is...at what point do they cash out their profits? That should send prices back down. You never hear that discussed.

$3.57 for regular unleaded in Absecon, NJ.

$3.93 for regular at the citgo and 3.94 at BP rite across the road.

You guys in NJ are lucky, the gas is a lot more expensive here in NY.

It's a whole bunch of hypocrisy in government. One side says we as Americans should start to use public transportation more, bike, and walk and stop driving, another side says cut the gas tax, and then another side says find alternative energy.

The problem I find with all of these is will the oil companies and politicians let Amercians use less oil? What will happen to the oil companies?

If anything should done now is make all cars hybrids. The technology is out there to get cars more miles to the gallon, but what's stopping out to get in full stream? The government and politicians in with the oil companies?

"Only" $3.43 for regular here in Monmouth county. Most stations I've seen average between 3.41-3.49.

if these reports of gas being 6 bucks a gallon or more happen we will be in some serious trouble.

gonna have to start taking the goped soon. that thing gets some pretty good gas miles for the size of the tank.

Is that like a Moped???

kinda just no seat. i use to have one that went about 37MPH i tricked it out a little but now i just got a plain sport that goes about 23mph. i dont ride it much anymore because of how it can affect my license or some bull a cop said to me.

good idea lab

Hate to hit a pothole

ooo a few years ago me and my friend got into a goped accident haaha he stopped like a moron and i kept going since i couldnt stop because if i went to the left i woulda got nailed by a car going a good 55mph or into a big big ditch. i chose just to go rite into him and i think it was the easier way.

This is how you save on the gas price-

Save cash

which one of these on the moped is you?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OJ4sHwax3Wg&feature=related

neither!Lol those arent gopeds this is.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fUio0BOZyeo

Here's the problem with the price of oil:

In 2006 (all of 2 years ago) oil traded at 75 a barrel and the euro conversion was around 1.20. So in Euros oil was about 62.50 per barrel. Today we have 125 oil and the euro sits around 1.55. In euros the oil price has moved to 80 a barrel. So much of the spike in oil is speculation in general and that speculation then has a big enhancement because of the weakening dollar. Only the Us is seeing the big percentage rise as currency gaons vs the dollar elsewhere puts a big limiting factor on it. Supply is incredibly adequate. There are actually reports that some oil producing countries are finding it hard to sell the oil they produce. No one would predict a rise in oil based on fundamentals. You have predictions of $200 oil now just like you had predictions of Dow 30,000 and Nasdaq 12,000 in 1999. This is nice to see as it means we may finally be nearing the end of this mad speculation. Usually you have one big run-up before a big burst. Much of this is driven by hedge fund managers who keep creating latger and larger bubbles. It started with the Nasday 5000 in 1999, moved to sub prime loans inflating housing prices after that and now has moved to commodities and grain. Guess whatr's next when these bubble bursts and you can get rich in whatever bubble that money inflates.

So, what you're saying is prices will still increase before the decline..do you think we see prices under $2/gal again within the next 5 or so yrs? How low do you think gas gets within the next 10 yrs?

What's funny (or sad - however you want to look at it) is that you have Goldman making that prediction of $200/barrell and most of the hedge funds that are behind the speculation do their trading through Goldman.

bunch of theives

Exactly. The news is put out and forecasted based on where the money flow is going and it makes the assumption that the conditions of speculation today will be the same months from now. There is an incredible disconnect between the real market and the speculation market in anything and right now that anything is oil. We know what happened to Nasdaq - it lost 60% of it's value when the bubble burst. We also know what happened to the hosing market because of the mess that was created by these hedge funds with aggressive lending. By the way have you noted that the rental market is completely unaffected by the housing mess. Rents continue to rise. They rose slowly while housing skyrocketted and they continue to rise slowly as housing collapses. It's fundamentals are the same as always and rental rates were the real indication that home prices were a bubble. Speculators can not mess up fundamentals on the rental market as that market has almost no opening for speculation. Speculation there forces the buy of a hard asset and speculators only want things they can make liquid on the spot . If these guys had to buy real oil and store it somewher instead of a futures contract that they can flip on a dime you'd have no speculation in oil at all.

Geek - gas is a bargain right now at the current price of oil. With oil at $125 a barrel the right price for gas is 30-35% higher than you are paying. The reason you are not at that price point is because of the big gap between the speculation of oil and the real market fundamentals. Gas has gone up because refineries cut capacity in order to better regulate their production to meet the real usage of gas. You could say it was timed to get prices up but imagine yourself a store owner and one of your products is easily accessiblle to purchase but doesn't sell at the level of availability. You cut the amount you buy from the wholesaler as a result. People want to think refineries cut production to increase gas prices but they really did it because the market required a lower output. The price increase as the supply eases is a natural result. The refineries are middlemen in the same way that you'd be if you were the retailer in the example I gave. The real cause of all this is hedge fund speculation in the dollar and in oil and both are affecting each other.

Great thread. Very informative.

I read a few stories over the weekend about all this. Some suppliers are simply in disbelief over the price of oil. When you are having a hard time selling something whose price is skyrocketing it is hard to understand. OPEC may raise production output in order to aid the market. But their problem is they can't sell all they are producing now and their future usage forecasts are a lot lower than those of the business analysts that keep pumping out news about demand outstripping supply. At the same time US oil companies are finding it hard to invest in drilling (which is very expensive and demands a long-term commitment) because they see the same real market issues as OPEC. Demand simply doesn't justify any of this and stories popping up all over the place about great increases in mass transit use across the US would scare me if I had to make a decision to spend tens of billions on oil drilling. Some cities are seeing 50% or more increases in usage of mass transit. If I'm OPEC I announce a planned production increase without really doing it. This whole market is psychological right now so it needs psychological medicine.

Geek - great story in Scientific American this week about the birth of the solar system. I remember you saying you have a great interest in this. If so you may want to pick up this issue:

http://www.sciamdigital.com/

LI Gas prices reached $4.00 a gallon this weekend:

3.91 in kings park and 3.97 here in E.northport. this is out of control.

I paid $3.49 last night